7" sealed beams

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Cubey
Maybe so but what about the conversion housings? Combining an H4 into one still does better than a sealed beam?

The H4 conversion kits are always an option, but I think you would be happy with the Sylvania XV sealed beams. That's what's in my F-150. They're sufficiently bright and they've lasted a lot of years already. And it's hard to complain about the price.

If you do go for a conversion, follow JHZR2's advice. Go with a reputable brand. Others have already brought up the value of relays. I haven't gone as far as a conversion or relays in the F-150, but when I get bored someday I will.

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Cubey, get your voltmeter out and take a reading at the headlight prongs with them on. They are super easy to reach on out vans. Looking down at it the terminal on the right is ground, top is low beam, left is high beam.

I found over 2 volt drop. Replacing the wimpy 20 awg ground wire to the body gained me half a volt. Later I made a harness out of 12 awg wire, got new 12 awg h4 plugs from Innova, 30 amp relays activated by the original wiring and now am within .35 volts of battery voltage. The brightness increase is significant!


Based on schematics in the Haynes manual (FSM has electrical in a separate manual that I don't have) there is no relays for the headlights. The juice flows directly through the headlight switch on my van (and does for all 71-84 models .. I didn't check the 85 and newer schematics).

I better leave well enough alone since it's working properly. I'd hate to create electrical problems messing with properly working wiring. I already had to fix electrical problems related to the running and backup lights (would blow the fuse) from a bad spot in the wiring harness god knows where. I had to just run new lengths of wire from the headlight switch and backup switch to the appropriate light fixtures.

If there was a relay to just replace wire from to the headlights, it wouldn't be such a big deal. I would have to do extensive modifications to upgrade the wiring from the main switch as well as the floor mounted high beam switch.

--

EDIT: Well now I think I understand better. You add relays at the ends of the original wire harness at the headlight harness and then run the 'active' (on position) hot wires from the relays to the new headlight harnesses...
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

That I may try.. not hard at all.

 

[Cubey]

Oh and it seems I can get plug and play male harnesses so i don't even have to cut the harness should I want or need to revert to the original setup:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-H4-Headlig...s-/380443974001

Basically, you just have to run 12g from the battery or alternator to the relay input and from the output to new headlight harnesses. The original headlight power leads for low and high beam just becomes signal wires and can be the stock wire harness size.

Do I have that right?

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Cubey
Originally Posted By: eljefino
H4 would be miles better as well as the reflector and lense were designed on a modern computer.

Sealed beams do a real simple single-hot spot pattern with smudgy edges. Check out some beam pattern shots with the autopals!


Maybe so but what about the conversion housings? Combining an H4 into one still does better than a sealed beam?
Hella and Bosch make good ones. Take a look at the Dan Stern Lighting site. Just google Dan Stern. Oops I see someone elso has given you the link.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted By: Cubey
Do I have that right?

More or less, but when people refer to 'using a harness', they are generally speaking about a whole kit like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Putco-230004HW-Premium-Automotive-Lighting/dp/B001P29X4G

It's all pre-wired and terminated. Power directly from the battery, ground connections near the new headlight plugs, mount the relays, and plug in only one of the original headlamp plugs to the new harness to make everything work. No permanent changes are made to the vehicle besides maybe drilling a few holes for the grounds and relays.

Also if it wasn't clear, H4 bulbs use the same 3-prong blade connectors that sealed beam lamps do, so installing an H4 upgrade kit does not require any wiring changes. You only have to make sure there is enough room behind the stock headlamps since the upgraded H4 headlamps are deeper.

 

[Cubey]

I guess I meant to say "pigtail", not "harness". I'll just make my own adapter harness so it will be the correct length and i can route the wires as I need to. I'm compfortable enough with electrical to do that.

Yes, I realize H6024 and H4 are the same connector but thanks for pointing it out to others who may be reading this and not know it.

How much extra space is required? 1/2" to 1"?

I had a look today when I was outside doing some other stuff on the van that required disconnecting the battery. There is lots of room on the driver's side as the headlight pigtail goes under the battery tray with the headlight installed. There is wide open space under the battery tray.

I'll just have to keep an eye that battery acid doesn't eat away at the wires. I have one of these I bought years ago for my Ford van so it may protect things under the battery some: http://www.batterymat.com

The other side looks a bit more cramped due to the HVAC blower housing but looks like it might be ok too.

 

[Cubey]

I found a 12 gauge wire pigtail for the relays, Napa part # LIT 9185

They are a bit pricey at $10 each, but they'll provide the desired result.

Many out there for sale online are only 18 gauge which would defeat the purpose.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight


If I was sure the Autopal 6054 replacements threw both a good low and high beam I'd consider them.


I was impressed with the 12 awg H4/9003 connectors I bought

I have a set of the autopal to experiment with. I can shoot some beam patterns, and perhaps even compare to the Marchals on my other car if you like.

Where did you get those connectors???

 

[Cubey]

Probably ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/H4-9003-Connecto...b37&vxp=mtr

 

[wrcsixeight]

I'd love to see the autopal 6054 pattern, but it is a lot of effort to switch them and take photos. If you're game......

I'll have to look into the marchal's too.

I am not sure a deeper 6054 bulb will fit in my buckets, or how much deeper it could be and still fit.


I got the connectors from Innova
Ordered late Thursday night, shipped Saturday, arrived Tuesday.

Cubey, I tapped my original wiring to my passenger side beam to activate the relays. I did not cut the wires. The original headlight plugs are still fully functional. Here is the new plug on a Nighthawk and the original coiled up nearby.

 

[Cubey]

I don't like tapping very much at all. I'd just as soon buy the pigtail to plug in to the original harness end and avoid using taps. Less mess and a more guaranteed connection than a little plastic tap.

 

[wrcsixeight]

I didn't use a tap. Perhaps splice is a better verb for it. I carefully removed 1 inch of insulation from the center of the wire, close to where I placed the relays on the firewall, inserted new relay trigger wire through the middle of the original high/low beam wire, twisted it, soldered it, applied 4 coats of liquid electrical tape over 3 hours, then wrapped it with self fusing tape

I did something similar for the fused relay feed wire. I tapped into the original 6 awg alternator/battery feed before the fusible link.

It was pretty easy to get two 12 gauge wires inside this stock alternator cable. I polished it up some before hand.

Cleaned soldered splice with rubbing alcohol. 4 layers of liquid electrical tape, then a good amount of 'Super Glue 15408 E-z Fuse Silicone Tape


My service manual said all wires were supposed to be 14 awg. The ground was 20 awg, low beam 16 awg and high beam 14awg.

The body of my Harness was my old Solar panel wiring. Ancor 12 awg tinned marine sheathed 3 wire.

The relays I bought had only a single 87 (output) terminal. So I did the same trick and just tapped into the middle of the Ancor wire.

Since it was 3 wire, I ran the ground back to the firewall by the relays, rather than run it to the body nearby the lights.

 

[Cubey]

I had a look at my alternator's cabling today when I had the doghouse cover off to replace the oil pressure warning switch.

It confused me a bit by how small the cable was. I just refereed to the Haynes manual's schematic.

It shows a 10 gauge wire!! (if I'm reading it correctly) Can you imagine a 10 gauge wire charging the battery and powering everything in a van?

You know what's even more confusing? The schematic seems to show the alternator doesn't seem to be linked to the battery?!

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: Cubey
I had a look at my alternator's cabling today when I had the doghouse cover off to replace the oil pressure warning switch.

It confused me a bit by how small the cable was. I just refereed to the Haynes manual's schematic.

It shows a 10 gauge wire!! (if I'm reading it correctly) Can you imagine a 10 gauge wire charging the battery and powering everything in a van?

You know what's even more confusing? The schematic seems to show the alternator doesn't seem to be linked to the battery?!


Let me make a correction. It seems to show two 18 gauge wires coming off of the alternator also that are hot.. but only when it's running? The 10 gauge wire is a constant hot for things like headlights, hazards, etc.

I'm lost on how the alternator is connected to the battery.

I thought I understood the charging system on vehicles. I have proven myself sorely wrong.

 

[eljefino]

The alt does send its power off to the world through the 10 ga. The two 18 ga wires you see are "voltage sense" coming back from after the fusebox/ ignition switch.

If there's a few 1/10s of a volt lost in the 10 ga, the voltage sense sees that and boosts the alt. So all will be right with the world.

Cheaper than running a 4 ga wire to begin with.

Potentially the alt's 10 ga wire ends at the starter, where it meets the starter's main +12v cable. Depending on everything, you can get the most voltage to your headlights by powering off the alt's main lug or potentially this starter lug. Just need a proper size ring terminal.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Old dodge vans are notorious for not only bad grounds causing weird issues, but poor battery life, due to chronic undercharging, also headlight dimming at idle.

While my '130' amp alternator feeds the engine battery over 6awg, it cannot, at a at idle speed of 550 rpm, keep up with the lights and blower motor on high. 10 amps are flowing from the battery in this scenario. But @750 rpm I got 10 amps to spare.

I tapped the alternator feed line to power the headlamp relays not only because it was close by and convenient, but because my alternator already has 2 ring terminals on it and not many threads left to accept a third. The added ring terminal is a fused 2 awg feed to my house batteries, run in parallel(circuitly) to the Stock wiring.

This greatly increases the amps that make it into these extra batteries when they are depleted, but also puts a lot more stress on the alternator and belt.

My alternator is regulated by the engine computer, and the 2 smaller 18awg field wires goto it, but on earlier models a separate voltage regulator is bolted to the firewall.
http://alternatorparts.com/dodge_voltage_regulator_kit.htm

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
The alt does send its power off to the world through the 10 ga. The two 18 ga wires you see are "voltage sense" coming back from after the fusebox/ ignition switch.

If there's a few 1/10s of a volt lost in the 10 ga, the voltage sense sees that and boosts the alt. So all will be right with the world.

Cheaper than running a 4 ga wire to begin with.

Potentially the alt's 10 ga wire ends at the starter, where it meets the starter's main +12v cable. Depending on everything, you can get the most voltage to your headlights by powering off the alt's main lug or potentially this starter lug. Just need a proper size ring terminal.


After tracing the wires on the schematic over and over, I realized it's incomplete! (For 71-76, 77-78 similar). It shows two wires related to the alternator going off the page to somewhere but there's no where they enter back in! The next page jumps to a plastic connector for the dash cluster and the other sub-diagrams that follow for trailer towing, cruise control, etc don't have them entering either.

I had to refer to the 79-84 schematic once again to understand better since it's not messed up and incomplete like the other one is. According to that schematic, the alternator is connected to the starter relay and then to the battery.

Yes, it has a separate voltage regulator on the firewall near the battery. I recall seeing an O'Reilly receipt I got with the van that showed it got replaced in the last few years. It may be in my binder of receipts and documentation for the van.

There is only one ring terminal currently on the alternator's 'battery' connector so I should be able to had one for upgraded headlights no problem.

There is a huge (4 gauge?) hot cable going to/from my house batteries to/from the Onan AJ 2.7kw generator (which seems odd.. I need to figure out why... for starting maybe?) but otherwise, has all smaller gauge stuff except that which I upgraded between the house batteries and the house fuse panel which was a matter of 3-4 ft of wire tops. I'm unsure on the gauge since I used some scrap wire, but it was probably about 8.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
I'd love to see the autopal 6054 pattern, but it is a lot of effort to switch them and take photos. If you're game......

I'll have to look into the marchal's too.


The autopal is in one of the pictures I posted above. Next time I pull out my 240D, Ill snap a shot of the Marchals.

 

[Cujet]

Having raced behind 7 inch headlights for years,

I prefer the "Candlepower" brand motorcycle headlights, with high wattage, high quality bulbs.

No, they are not HID bright, and today, there are some excellent options. But the Candlepower headlights have a smooth pattern, and gentle cut-off, unlike E-Codes. The Candlepower 7 inch lights are very pleasant to drive behind, and won't bother oncoming drivers.

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Having raced behind 7 inch headlights for years,

I prefer the "Candlepower" brand motorcycle headlights, with high wattage, high quality bulbs.


They don't seem to make/sell 6024's... http://store.candlepower.com/12sebe.html

EDIT: Oh, I guess they might but I can't seem to find any anywhere. http://www.candlepowerinc.com/pdfs/sealed.beam.product.index.pdf