ls1mike
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I hope Ford beats up on the super cars with a 6 cyl Ecoboost, it is more gratifying that way.
2017 Ford GT
- Thread starter panthermike
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Wait I forgot about the flat plane V8, why in the world are they using a truck engine when they have a motor than can be a proper exotic V8 with a bit of work?
A 600hp-700hp NA version of the Mustangs V8 would be something.
Unless the guys are Ford are channeling the spirit of the XJ220...
A 600hp-700hp NA version of the Mustangs V8 would be something.
Unless the guys are Ford are channeling the spirit of the XJ220...
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If Ford are stating 600 bhp from the factory car, then intakes, exhaust, and maps should see 700 if not more, and the next step up is inter coolers, turbos and injectors, potentially knocking on the door of 1000bhp. Kind of makes a ttv8 redundant.
I'm very interested to see the shape of the curved to try and estimate how hard those turbos are working..
I'm very interested to see the shape of the curved to try and estimate how hard those turbos are working..
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Olas
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
Set the way-back machine to the mid to late '80's when turbo V6's were dominating IMSA. The Nissan GTP won every race in 1988 with a 3.0L SOHC 2-valve V6 turbo. I never heard how much power that engine made, but it was reputed to be over 800.
The Corvette GTP was powered by a pushrod 90-degree 3.0L V6, and had ~780 HP at something like 7800 rpm. It won a few races, but they never got it to go the distance in the Daytona 24-hr. I talked to Ryan Falconer (the engine builder) at the Miami Boat Show about 15 years ago. He said he tested that engine at 1300 HP, uncorrected. I was so agog, I forgot to ask him how much boost that took.
The Corvette GTP was powered by a pushrod 90-degree 3.0L V6, and had ~780 HP at something like 7800 rpm. It won a few races, but they never got it to go the distance in the Daytona 24-hr. I talked to Ryan Falconer (the engine builder) at the Miami Boat Show about 15 years ago. He said he tested that engine at 1300 HP, uncorrected. I was so agog, I forgot to ask him how much boost that took.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Olas
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
I hope my post didn't read as though it was a production car, its not. It is road legal and has a full interior, though.
The point is Ford have the resources and R&D capacity to make more power from less displacement and still be as reliable as anything else. And in a fast car, more power and less weight are only attractive features.
If you take 200bhp/litre as an achievable and reliable production engine figure, the ttv6 should make at least 700. Plus Fords economic might and ability to innovate should put at least 20% on top of that, so 850 ish.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
I hope my post didn't read as though it was a production car, its not. It is road legal and has a full interior, though.
The point is Ford have the resources and R&D capacity to make more power from less displacement and still be as reliable as anything else. And in a fast car, more power and less weight are only attractive features.
If you take 200bhp/litre as an achievable and reliable production engine figure, the ttv6 should make at least 700. Plus Fords economic might and ability to innovate should put at least 20% on top of that, so 850 ish.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Olas
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
I think the highest power from a production 2.0L I4 turbo is 350 HP from Mercedes.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
I think the highest power from a production 2.0L I4 turbo is 350 HP from Mercedes.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Set the way-back machine to the mid to late '80's when turbo V6's were dominating IMSA. The Nissan GTP won every race in 1988 with a 3.0L SOHC 2-valve V6 turbo. I never heard how much power that engine made, but it was reputed to be over 800.
The Corvette GTP was powered by a pushrod 90-degree 3.0L V6, and had ~780 HP at something like 7800 rpm. It won a few races, but they never got it to go the distance in the Daytona 24-hr. I talked to Ryan Falconer (the engine builder) at the Miami Boat Show about 15 years ago. He said he tested that engine at 1300 HP, uncorrected. I was so agog, I forgot to ask him how much boost that took.
Yup, and the Ford RS200 Cosworth was purported to make 700-800HP in "race trim" as well. The street version was HEAVILY detuned.
Set the way-back machine to the mid to late '80's when turbo V6's were dominating IMSA. The Nissan GTP won every race in 1988 with a 3.0L SOHC 2-valve V6 turbo. I never heard how much power that engine made, but it was reputed to be over 800.
The Corvette GTP was powered by a pushrod 90-degree 3.0L V6, and had ~780 HP at something like 7800 rpm. It won a few races, but they never got it to go the distance in the Daytona 24-hr. I talked to Ryan Falconer (the engine builder) at the Miami Boat Show about 15 years ago. He said he tested that engine at 1300 HP, uncorrected. I was so agog, I forgot to ask him how much boost that took.
Yup, and the Ford RS200 Cosworth was purported to make 700-800HP in "race trim" as well. The street version was HEAVILY detuned.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Olas
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
I hope my post didn't read as though it was a production car, its not. It is road legal and has a full interior, though.
The point is Ford have the resources and R&D capacity to make more power from less displacement and still be as reliable as anything else. And in a fast car, more power and less weight are only attractive features.
If you take 200bhp/litre as an achievable and reliable production engine figure, the ttv6 should make at least 700. Plus Fords economic might and ability to innovate should put at least 20% on top of that, so 850 ish.
Yes, they have the resources to do it, and arguably, they've done it, and then they detune them. It was not uncommon for a turbo swap on a Terminator to net 1,000HP easily ('03-04 Cobra). A buddy of mine had one with a twin swap and it made 800 to the tires. His "daily driver" tune was 700 to the tires, and that was on 91 octane pump gas.
Then there's the Ford GT (previous generation) which has made well over 1,000RWHP on the stock internals with a turbo swap. Non-stock internals, one of them currently holds the world record for the standing mile and is rumoured to make 2300HP IIRC.
But I did touch on something else and that's the fuel required to make that kind of power too. I would be surprised if the ceiling for the 3.5L EcoBoost is 600HP (it isn't) on pump gas. But wouldn't be surprised if 91 octane limits it to around the 700HP mark.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Olas
Just a musing, but perhaps Ford are on the wrong track with their engine/platform choice..
A single turbo 4 cylinder can make over 1000hp from 2 litres displacement, it seems crazy that a manufacturer as wealthy and powerful as ford don't get more power density out of their designs..
No.... This is a PRODUCTION car. There isn't a production car out there making 1,000HP from a 2L 4-banger.
I hope my post didn't read as though it was a production car, its not. It is road legal and has a full interior, though.
The point is Ford have the resources and R&D capacity to make more power from less displacement and still be as reliable as anything else. And in a fast car, more power and less weight are only attractive features.
If you take 200bhp/litre as an achievable and reliable production engine figure, the ttv6 should make at least 700. Plus Fords economic might and ability to innovate should put at least 20% on top of that, so 850 ish.
Yes, they have the resources to do it, and arguably, they've done it, and then they detune them. It was not uncommon for a turbo swap on a Terminator to net 1,000HP easily ('03-04 Cobra). A buddy of mine had one with a twin swap and it made 800 to the tires. His "daily driver" tune was 700 to the tires, and that was on 91 octane pump gas.
Then there's the Ford GT (previous generation) which has made well over 1,000RWHP on the stock internals with a turbo swap. Non-stock internals, one of them currently holds the world record for the standing mile and is rumoured to make 2300HP IIRC.
But I did touch on something else and that's the fuel required to make that kind of power too. I would be surprised if the ceiling for the 3.5L EcoBoost is 600HP (it isn't) on pump gas. But wouldn't be surprised if 91 octane limits it to around the 700HP mark.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Interesting. Wonder why they didn't use a different engine, like an ecoboost v8 that gave real top of the line numbers... Weight perhaps?
It sounds like they're almost transplanting the motor out of their Daytona Prototype car right into the GT. But, I don't know, a twin-turbo 5.2L flat-plane V8 would be okay too
Oh, a 600hp engine is real sporty... But a v8 ecoboost would be even more powerful and might have a play in derated form as a v10 replacement.
But it would add mass, which isn't desirable I guess...
You don't need a V8 for that much power. Mazda has a racing engine (2.3L) that puts out over 1000 HP. They probably wanted 600 HP for the balance they were looking for.
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Interesting. Wonder why they didn't use a different engine, like an ecoboost v8 that gave real top of the line numbers... Weight perhaps?
It sounds like they're almost transplanting the motor out of their Daytona Prototype car right into the GT. But, I don't know, a twin-turbo 5.2L flat-plane V8 would be okay too
Oh, a 600hp engine is real sporty... But a v8 ecoboost would be even more powerful and might have a play in derated form as a v10 replacement.
But it would add mass, which isn't desirable I guess...
You don't need a V8 for that much power. Mazda has a racing engine (2.3L) that puts out over 1000 HP. They probably wanted 600 HP for the balance they were looking for.
Having recently driven a McLaren 12c with 600+HP, I can state that 600+ is really enough in this type of car. (10.5 1/4 mile @ 135-139MPH) It's nice to speculate about more, but it really can't be effectively used due to traction concerns.
Sure, over 90MPH, super expensive street tires get full traction, but without all wheel drive and amazing rubber, 650HP is about it.
I applaud Ford for going this direction. Sure, I understand a normally aspirated V8 can make this kind of power also. Any Corvette Z06 owner (427cu/in 505HP pushrod engine) V8 owner who modifies the engine understands it's easy to make a reliable 600+ in a compact and lightweight package. That does not mean performance cars should all contain Chevy Small Blocks. Turbo's have their place in my world.
Sure, over 90MPH, super expensive street tires get full traction, but without all wheel drive and amazing rubber, 650HP is about it.
I applaud Ford for going this direction. Sure, I understand a normally aspirated V8 can make this kind of power also. Any Corvette Z06 owner (427cu/in 505HP pushrod engine) V8 owner who modifies the engine understands it's easy to make a reliable 600+ in a compact and lightweight package. That does not mean performance cars should all contain Chevy Small Blocks. Turbo's have their place in my world.
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Originally Posted By: Cujet
Having recently driven a McLaren 12c with 600+HP, I can state that 600+ is really enough in this type of car. (10.5 1/4 mile @ 135-139MPH) It's nice to speculate about more, but it really can't be effectively used due to traction concerns.
Sure, over 90MPH, super expensive street tires get full traction, but without all wheel drive and amazing rubber, 650HP is about it.
I applaud Ford for going this direction. Sure, I understand a normally aspirated V8 can make this kind of power also. Any Corvette Z06 owner (427cu/in 505HP pushrod engine) V8 owner who modifies the engine understands it's easy to make a reliable 600+ in a compact and lightweight package. That does not mean performance cars should all contain Chevy Small Blocks. Turbo's have their place in my world.
La Ferrari maes 900 n/a, 918 spyder and various Koeniggsegg's make about the same, if not a little more.
Maybe Ford are aiming this at poser's and rich wives rather than drivers? It doesn't even have a gear stick ffs!
Having recently driven a McLaren 12c with 600+HP, I can state that 600+ is really enough in this type of car. (10.5 1/4 mile @ 135-139MPH) It's nice to speculate about more, but it really can't be effectively used due to traction concerns.
Sure, over 90MPH, super expensive street tires get full traction, but without all wheel drive and amazing rubber, 650HP is about it.
I applaud Ford for going this direction. Sure, I understand a normally aspirated V8 can make this kind of power also. Any Corvette Z06 owner (427cu/in 505HP pushrod engine) V8 owner who modifies the engine understands it's easy to make a reliable 600+ in a compact and lightweight package. That does not mean performance cars should all contain Chevy Small Blocks. Turbo's have their place in my world.
La Ferrari maes 900 n/a, 918 spyder and various Koeniggsegg's make about the same, if not a little more.
Maybe Ford are aiming this at poser's and rich wives rather than drivers? It doesn't even have a gear stick ffs!
At first I thought "ugh" because I think the last Ford GT was one of the most beautiful cars of all time.
But I'm quickly warming up to the new one.
Although, while I do fully support the argument for smaller displacement turbo engines, it still seems like a shame with this one. I'm sure it'll be mind-bogglingly fast, but Ford can build a nice V-8, and being able to trace it's lineage back to the original GT40 by at least sharing the same number of cylinders appeals to a sense of tradition.
But I'm quickly warming up to the new one.
Although, while I do fully support the argument for smaller displacement turbo engines, it still seems like a shame with this one. I'm sure it'll be mind-bogglingly fast, but Ford can build a nice V-8, and being able to trace it's lineage back to the original GT40 by at least sharing the same number of cylinders appeals to a sense of tradition.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Interesting. Wonder why they didn't use a different engine, like an ecoboost v8 that gave real top of the line numbers... Weight perhaps?
That's funny, my first thought was to ditch the turbos and run a pair of 3.5 V6's. Not sure if anyone else is running a V12. But that would set it apart.
Just seems like the sort of car that deserves a V12. Just for the exhaust note. Although a flat plae V8 would do.
Interesting. Wonder why they didn't use a different engine, like an ecoboost v8 that gave real top of the line numbers... Weight perhaps?
That's funny, my first thought was to ditch the turbos and run a pair of 3.5 V6's. Not sure if anyone else is running a V12. But that would set it apart.
Just seems like the sort of car that deserves a V12. Just for the exhaust note. Although a flat plae V8 would do.
I'll take the Ford GT Alan Jackson drives instead.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Unless the guys are Ford are channeling the spirit of the XJ220...
Or the original, good looking, Nobles.
Unless the guys are Ford are channeling the spirit of the XJ220...
Or the original, good looking, Nobles.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Maybe Ford are aiming this at poser's and rich wives rather than drivers?
Sorry, but the above sounds just like something that uppity blowhard Clarkson might say (and most probably will once his show gets it's hands on one).
Of course, he will also blast it for it's lack of that elusive "refinement" he is soooo fond of as well.
Maybe Ford are aiming this at poser's and rich wives rather than drivers?
Sorry, but the above sounds just like something that uppity blowhard Clarkson might say (and most probably will once his show gets it's hands on one).
Of course, he will also blast it for it's lack of that elusive "refinement" he is soooo fond of as well.
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