2016 Kia Turbo 20W50

[Joe90_guy]

So many questions. Here goes...

Regarding oils in the Middle East, Latin America, Asia & Africa, the quality of the oil, in my view, is surprisingly good. If you exclude oddities like Iran, most countries have been at API SL with a splash of ACEA for a long time now. Typically these places use 15W40 & 20W50 Group I oils which I personally think isn't a bad thing. Group II is also making inroads there too. The primary role of the oil there is still to lubricate the engine and it hasn't been subordinated to the goals of ever better fuel economy (at any price) or the needs of the exhaust after-treatment (again at any price).

I too always thought M1 was PAO. I once had to break bread with the M1 Mafia (horrible, repellent people) and all they banged on about all night was PAO. Yeah, I get the VISOM thing. It was a truly superb Group III but didn't the plant explode???

Yes, the Euro Noack spec is 13% max. with some OEMs going a bit lower. However this gives a bit misleading picture. 20W50s and 15W40 will always be way way lower that 13% just because they are heavier grades. Likewise semi-synthetic 10W40s (still v big over here) tend to be significantly lower than 13% because of certain critical tests in the A3/B4 sequences. 10W30 you can find it you look for it (particularly for motorcycle) but it's not common. This is partly because getting 3.5 HTHS on a 10W30 can be tricky. And then you hit 5W30 territory and Euro 5W30s have traditionally been full Group III oils so again are well below the 13% limit.

To the person in Malaysia who didn't like dino 20W50, I'm surprised you have problem cranking. I lived in Singapore for three years and all I remember was it was forever HOT! You could easily switch to a 15W40 if its an issue for you. And yes, if you use Group Is, you do need to swap the oil out more regularly than synthetics but be aware that these oils still have to go through the same basic test sequences as synthetics so the dino oil still has to pass the Sequence VG sludge test. I suspect your concerns over sludge are misplaced.

 

[alcyon]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy


To the person in Malaysia who didn't like dino 20W50, I'm surprised you have problem cranking. I lived in Singapore for three years and all I remember was it was forever HOT! You could easily switch to a 15W40 if its an issue for you. And yes, if you use Group Is, you do need to swap the oil out more regularly than synthetics but be aware that these oils still have to go through the same basic test sequences as synthetics so the dino oil still has to pass the Sequence VG sludge test. I suspect your concerns over sludge are misplaced.


I salute you for your good attitude and your polite responses. I get your point about passing the vg sludge test..but all of the dino 20w50 here are api sl rated. True 15w40 is api sn rated. My problem with cranking isnt temperature related. Thats the point i am trying to make. My point is the oil oxidizes rather quickly causing semi blockage of oil passageways especially the really tight ones like the piston squirters. Yes malaysia and singapore is forever hot..and dont forget..highly humid ! Thats my issue with the 20w50 dinos. I have seen these happen in a lot of 20w50 filled engines over here, one of them belongs to my friend..same car and engine about same mileage. I could see varnish on his valve rockers and on startup his valves make horrible grinding noises. Mine doesnt. Why is his engine making those noises especialy on start up. Must be the oil passageways are restricted by varnish or sludge thereby limiting the lubricant movement to the valves.
Only difference is i use either 0w40,5w40 syns or 10w40 semi syns. He uses the cheapest available..20w50 dino, which i used also from 1992 to 2004 before my engine rebuild. The piston sticking was a sign as one day i found my oil filter bursting upon start up. When i had the car towed to the mechanic and he removed the sump..he found a few metal shavings in the sump area. I dont know how those got there as i was very careful to not drop anything other than oil in the fill hole. I knew later that those were cylinder wall and piston skirt wear 3 years later when i sent the engine for complete overhaul. My mechanic told me that my block cylinders are badly worn and ovalized. Heck i even had those horrible mettalic rattling from my valves back then just like what my friend is experiencing now.
no such noise with the group3 though.

 

[Joe90_guy]

Thanks for sharing this. Clearly you've been burnt in the past by 20W50.

All I can is that in the last decade, things have been rapidly improving on the 15W40/20W50 front in SE Asia. Today, it's far easier and cheaper to source Group II in Singapore than it is to procure Group I. Group IIs like Mobil Jurong (probably has a different name now?) and Formosa Plastics are superb quality oils. Properly treated Group IIs are much better on oxidation and sludge formation than their old, Group I counterparts.

Obviously stick with whichever oil personally suits you but I suspect that if you could jump in a time machine and return to 1994, and then re-run your car for twelve years on today's Group II based 20W50, you might not have the bad experience you had first time around.

PS, if 15W40 is SN, it's a sure sign it's Group II.

 

[alcyon]

I checked at all my local sources and indeed all the locally blended 20w50 are indeed up to api sl only. The only api sm or sn dino available is imported from the usa through ace hardware and its PYB. From a price point..its only a little bit cheaper than a grp3 5w40 syn on sale..so i find it pointless to buy such api sm/sn 20w50 here.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Quite a few enthusiasts on Bitog that use and 'revere' Group II (dino).

And they work just dandy when used where specified and appropriate. I still can't see having used synthetic in the taxis back in the day.