2012 Honda Accord 160K miles
- Thread starter monel777
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The oil is not the cause of the VTC startup noise...it is likely a bad VTC actuator. See video below:
You are right, but the replacement Honda made has problems too...so I'm wondering if a slightly thicker oil will coat the engine just a tiny bit better when cold? Just a second of noise or maybe not even that long...
Try it.
This. It’s not going to hurt anything to try. Go for some 0W-40 from Walmart. Easy to get and not too expensive.
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My CRV VTC noise was from a 5$ weak spring inside it. Youtube has many videos on it and I also have done it on my car
Takes like less than an hour if you have the right torx (5 sided), the spring, and generic ratchet/sockets. Buy the spring and ask your mechanic, they should do be able to do it with 1hr charge at most.
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Buy the entire kit at http://spring-start.com
Don’t guess and use random springs. They have had a mechanical engineer work with them to find the right spring rate, and the kits come with the right size high quality Torx bits.
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Right, for me it worked though. Comparing to 700-1000$ dealer quote this kit is super cheap and the 5 sided torx is pretty useless so better to get just 1.
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Those springs from Amazon, etc. don’t work for everyone. The other part of it is to make sure the locking pin moves in and out of the detent in the back plate of the gear freely. Can you provide a link to the spring you used?
The spring you’ve got pictured there looks closer to the diameter it should be than the main one I’ve seen people use. I’m not discounting what your experience was, I’m glad if you were able to stop your rattle. I’m saying that the kits are around $35, and if someone’s going to open their engine to replace the spring, it’s probably a good idea to use a purpose made kit for the resolution.
The rattle issue goes into worn timing chain tensioners and stretched chains, as well as the oil seals in the actuator- the 10 plastic blocks in both the vane rotors and the outer housing. If you can catch the rattle and stop it early on then it usually doesn’t get into that, but the timing chain tensioner needs to be replaced at least every 100K miles.
You are right, the kit should be safer.
I used this spring but had to cut half of the extra length (it's a bit longer compared to oem string). Highlighted the dimensions below:
Handyman Springs SP 9722 Compression Spring, Spring Steel Construction, Nickel-Plated Finish, 0.028 GA x 7/32 In. x 1-3/8 In.
Worth to mention that the official fix is to use an upgraded VTC actuator that only dealer has (according to my mechanic).
Thanks for timing chain tensioner heads up, will consider it along with valve adjustment at ~100K miles.
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Weird, that’s the same one everyone gets. I even bought some because they were cheap and mine must be wrong, they are smaller around. Anyway, the newer upgraded actuators still rattle after a while. Best to run 5W30 as well.
I can tell you it works, maybe just check the dimensions to make sure they didnt send the wrong part.
It's so much stronger I don't think the rattle will ever come back but if it does, it's a 4 pack for 5$
I'm not sure dealer would sell you an improved part in this case. They might simply be replacing it with a part that still has the same problem and it's a big job. Replacing the spring with the upgraded spring is the way to go as far as I'm concerned. It's much easier to do and has a greater probability of solving the problem. Why spend $1,500 on labor when you can do it with 1 hours worth of time and less than $100 worth of parts?
Also, is it possibility that the timing chain tensioner is causing the noise because they can also fail in a mode where they do not provide enough tension to the timing chain, especially at startup. There are YouTube videos on this also. It seems that this problem is more likely to be occurring the 2015 and Beyond models. But still it's possible that this is the problem for an earlier model. So if the variable valve actuator spring replacement doesn't solve the problem consider the timing chain tensioner upgrade as per the YouTube videos. It's best to fix this because both of these problems are putting extra strain on the timing chain which could result in it stretching to the point that it has to be replaced at a time interval much shorter than normal.
Replacing the timing chain tensioner is not really a big job because there is a small access cover to get to it. I think there may be some high performance Racing Equipment supply companies the people use whenever they use a K24 as the base for a build that Supply a upgraded design timing chain tensioner but I don't know their names.
Maybe somebody on this site can chime in with a name of a company that would Supply that?
Also, is it possibility that the timing chain tensioner is causing the noise because they can also fail in a mode where they do not provide enough tension to the timing chain, especially at startup. There are YouTube videos on this also. It seems that this problem is more likely to be occurring the 2015 and Beyond models. But still it's possible that this is the problem for an earlier model. So if the variable valve actuator spring replacement doesn't solve the problem consider the timing chain tensioner upgrade as per the YouTube videos. It's best to fix this because both of these problems are putting extra strain on the timing chain which could result in it stretching to the point that it has to be replaced at a time interval much shorter than normal.
Replacing the timing chain tensioner is not really a big job because there is a small access cover to get to it. I think there may be some high performance Racing Equipment supply companies the people use whenever they use a K24 as the base for a build that Supply a upgraded design timing chain tensioner but I don't know their names.
Maybe somebody on this site can chime in with a name of a company that would Supply that?
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I don't have any personal experience with them, but this article from Motor Trend explains the weak tensioner issues and references two upgraded performance parts.
Weak K24 Chain Tensioners
Replaced my K24 Timing Chain Tensioner and the rattle at startup was remedied. It's a backyard mechanic job that takes less than an hour the first time. I'd guess someone with experience could easily do it in 20 minutes. It's not hard, but you better realize that tensioner spring is under a lot of pressure, and don't pull the pin holding it in place before everything is in it's proper place. You could lose an eye.
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The revised R5A actuator will also develop the rattle. I think a big factor is the use and burn off of 0W20. Some people have even made as little of a change as going to 5W20, or have done an engine treatment with Seafoam and had the rattle stop.
The chains don’t actually stretch - the pins in them elongate. Not by much, but by enough to notice if you compare an affected chain to a new one. What causes this is being overheated by running with a low oil level consistently, to which 0W20 lends itself to because of burning off.
The three big factors in the rattle are the locking pin spring, the tensioner, and a stretched timing chain. One or more in any combination can produce the rattle. It’s also been noted that the inner workings of the actuators acquire wear and gapping is created between the outer gear and the rotor vanes. I believe that the issue starts with low oil levels which not only overheat the timing chain, but everything else as well, to include the locking pin spring. When this happens it weakens the original spring and effectively shortens it snd lowers its rate.
The chains don’t actually stretch - the pins in them elongate. Not by much, but by enough to notice if you compare an affected chain to a new one. What causes this is being overheated by running with a low oil level consistently, to which 0W20 lends itself to because of burning off.
The three big factors in the rattle are the locking pin spring, the tensioner, and a stretched timing chain. One or more in any combination can produce the rattle. It’s also been noted that the inner workings of the actuators acquire wear and gapping is created between the outer gear and the rotor vanes. I believe that the issue starts with low oil levels which not only overheat the timing chain, but everything else as well, to include the locking pin spring. When this happens it weakens the original spring and effectively shortens it snd lowers its rate.