10 Reasons Why Volkswagen Can't Succeed In America

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Yeah, but isn't the CC the European Passat? Something that most reviews and internet Monday quarter backers were bellyaching about when VW introduced the Americanized Passat version. So they gave what apparently a lot of enthusiasts wanted, the European Passat, and apparently it's too expensive.
I guess the expectation was that it would've been priced like a Camry LE, and even then they would find something to gripe about.

Car enthusiasts, for the most part, are the worst group to take advice on which models will be popular or not. They will be chest thumping how they would buy that manual, 300hp sports wagon in a heart beat if it was only available, only to have pathetically dismal sales when such a model arrives. But of course, reading the magazines and forum, one would thing it would sell like hot cakes.


The B6 Passat was an enthusiasts car priced like a Camry. It had the same engine as the CC (even to this day) and the similar sporty chasis. It won Motortrends sedan shootout back in 2008 going away. It was an incredible car for the money. I got mine new for $18,900. It was close to the A4 in performance and fun-to-drive factor but not close in price.

It was also a fairly successful era for VW in America and they talked about expanding which led them to turn the B7 into a Camry without the reliability. They tried to grab market share by trying to be like "america's best selling car" and in the process lost a lot of their old customers while failing to move people out of Camrys and into Passats.

 

[KrisZ]

The Passat had pathetic sales in US period. Look at the below numbers. It is clear as day that normal, non car enthusiasts did not appreciate the Passat for what it was. Don't get me wrong, the Passats of old were nicely engineered and no Camry or Accord could touch it in refinement, driving dynamics and fit and finish, even their reliability was quite decent. But most people did not find those traits worth while for the price.
You may have gotten yours for cheap, because of incentives and slow sales, but the Passat historically was always priced as a premium product and relying on heavy discounts is not a sound long term business strategy.

Below are the numbers, and it is clear that the "cheap" Passat was received very well by general public and the sales numbers prove it.


1990 17.945
1991 15.833
1992 12.578
1993 11.970
1994 11.021
1995 14.010
1996 19.850
1998 39.272
1999 68.151
2000 84.521
2001 95.028
2002 96.142
2003 76.977
2004 67.640
2005 49.233
2006 54.208
2007 37.183
2008 30.034
2009 11.138
2010 12.497
2011 22.835
2012 117.023
2013 109.652
2014 96.649
2015 78.207


http://left-lane.com/us-car-sales-data/volkswagen/volkswagen-passat/

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
It was also a fairly successful era for VW in America and they talked about expanding which led them to turn the B7 into a Camry without the reliability. They tried to grab market share by trying to be like "america's best selling car" and in the process lost a lot of their old customers while failing to move people out of Camrys and into Passats.


Good points. In the late 90s and early 2000s, their marketing/positioning was full of "We are fun, we are different" type of messaging, and I think it showed in their products. You don't see much of that anymore.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Garak
However, the original point is valid, that a CC does get into some pretty rarefied pricing territory.

I remember the original CC was quite nicely appointed. The interior was quite good, IMO, and the body lines very very sleek/fresh at the time. Is the current CC still much nicer than the Passat? I haven't really seen one in person.

One differentiator that I can see is that the CC can be had with AWD, but we are talking mid $40s, which is nuts. If someone really wanted AWD, they'd probably look at Subaru or Audi instead.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The Passat had pathetic sales in US period. Look at the below numbers. It is clear as day that normal, non car enthusiasts did not appreciate the Passat for what it was. Don't get me wrong, the Passats of old were nicely engineered and no Camry or Accord could touch it in refinement, driving dynamics and fit and finish, even their reliability was quite decent. But most people did not find those traits worth while for the price.
You may have gotten yours for cheap, because of incentives and slow sales, but the Passat historically was always priced as a premium product and relying on heavy discounts is not a sound long term business strategy.

Below are the numbers, and it is clear that the "cheap" Passat was received very well by general public and the sales numbers prove it.


1990 17.945
1991 15.833
1992 12.578
1993 11.970
1994 11.021
1995 14.010
1996 19.850
1998 39.272
1999 68.151
2000 84.521
2001 95.028
2002 96.142
2003 76.977
2004 67.640
2005 49.233
2006 54.208
2007 37.183
2008 30.034
2009 11.138
2010 12.497
2011 22.835
2012 117.023
2013 109.652
2014 96.649
2015 78.207


http://left-lane.com/us-car-sales-data/volkswagen/volkswagen-passat/


Kris, I should clarify. I never said the Passat sold in the same ball park as Accords and Camrys. But VW was profitable and had some of their successful days between 2000 and 2009. They were never going to overtake Honda and Toyota because reliability sells in America and that was not VW's strength. So they might as well be profitable with what they were good at without worrying about overtaking the big 2.

Look at the B5 and B6 sales. Compare to the first year of the B7 (2011). The B7 sold only 22K units in its first year which is pathetic. The B5 sold 84K and B6 54k in its first year. The B7 managed to sell well in 2012 once VW opened it up for fleet sales.

The other thing is my B6 MSRPed at $23K. I should have posted that instead of my price. That was definitely Camry territory. I got a good deal only because it was a factory incentives month combined with a VW owner loyalty program. Plus, I was a long time customer at my VW dealer and they gave me a good price. It was not because demand was low at the time. In fact, my sales guy actually ordered my car because I wanted a stick.

Edit: The b7 was technically called the NMS (North american model).

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I may be accused of sounding like Pop, but I'd just get maps, and forego the navigation and the stupid phone.

We like basic GPS units. Err, even those have gone upscale I guess; the current ones we have tell us the mph for the road we are on, and what lane to be in too, if it's a multi-lane highway. $100 a pop, covers the whole USA, and will last longer than need be (3 plus years). Decide after that period if its worth updating the maps or just buying a new unit.

I guess one could print a slew of maps off at home cheaper, but I'm not so sure.

Topic for a different thread I guess.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Car enthusiasts, for the most part, are the worst group to take advice on which models will be popular or not. They will be chest thumping how they would buy that manual, 300hp sports wagon in a heart beat if it was only available, only to have pathetically dismal sales when such a model arrives. But of course, reading the magazines and forum, one would thing it would sell like hot cakes.


Very true.

I'm guessing the diesel manual wagon guys are the worst ones--if people actually buy one, they won't buy another for 10+ years. Not quite the sales model that nets the most sales.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Kris, I should clarify. I never said the Passat sold in the same ball park as Accords and Camrys. But VW was profitable and had some of their successful days between 2000 and 2009. They were never going to overtake Honda and Toyota because reliability sells in America and that was not VW's strength. So they might as well be profitable with what they were good at without worrying about overtaking the big 2.

Look at the B5 and B6 sales. Compare to the first year of the B7 (2011). The B7 sold only 22K units in its first year which is pathetic. The B5 sold 84K and B6 54k in its first year. The B7 managed to sell well in 2012 once VW opened it up for fleet sales.

The other thing is my B6 MSRPed at $23K. I should have posted that instead of my price. That was definitely Camry territory. I got a good deal only because it was a factory incentives month combined with a VW owner loyalty program. Plus, I was a long time customer at my VW dealer and they gave me a good price. It was not because demand was low at the time. In fact, my sales guy actually ordered my car because I wanted a stick.

Edit: The b7 was technically called the NMS (North american model).


Fair enough

I agree that VW could've kept the upscale position and probably do well and be profitable. But alas, there are very few manufacturers that can resist the allure of massive volumes and big market share. That's what VW is trying to chase, unsuccessfully so far. But their move with the Passat and Jetta was in the right direction as far as chasing volume goes. The TDI emission fiasco put a temper to that though.

 

[VeeDubb]

Yeah the diesel fiasco is big. A buddy of mine is trying to unload his diesel but feels like he is almost engaging in fraud if he sells it to someone else. He is waiting to see if VW will buy it back for him.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Yeah the diesel fiasco is big. A buddy of mine is trying to unload his diesel but feels like he is almost engaging in fraud if he sells it to someone else. He is waiting to see if VW will buy it back for him.

Why would he be unloading the diesel? An engine with less bureaucrat mandated complexity would seem to be a big plus.

 

[VeeDubb]

He's worried that it is generating toxins that might hurt his kids if they ride in the car. He's got three young boys.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
He's worried that it is generating toxins that might hurt his kids if they ride in the car. He's got three young boys.
Oh wow. You should recommend he see a head doctor.

 

[VeeDubb]

Haha. Yeah, I dunno. I try not to give parents with young children any advice related to the health of their kids, real or imagined.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Haha. Yeah, I dunno. I try not to give parents with young children any advice related to the health of their kids, real or imagined.
Does he think VW routed the exhaust to the passenger compartment to cheat on the test?

 

[VeeDubb]

Not sure. What he told me is that he's read that lots of diesels emit illegal levels of toxins that cause respiratory problems. I think he is mainly worried about the long term effects of what happens when his kids have the windows rolled down and they are idling or sitting in stop-n-go traffic.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I think he is mainly worried about the long term effects of what happens when his kids have the windows rolled down and they are idling or sitting in stop-n-go traffic.

I would think that if you are sitting in stop-and-go traffic with windows rolled down, the sum of exhaust being emitted from all other vehicles around you would be more harmful than the exhaust from your own vehicle.

 

[VeeDubb]

Yeah probably true. But parents often operate on fear, not logic.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
I think he is mainly worried about the long term effects of what happens when his kids have the windows rolled down and they are idling or sitting in stop-n-go traffic.

I would think that if you are sitting in stop-and-go traffic with windows rolled down, the sum of exhaust being emitted from all other vehicles around you would be more harmful than the exhaust from your own vehicle.


How did we all make it through the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's? Cars of back then spewed much more than today's vehicles (even the cheating ones).

I guess people need something to "worry" about.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I remember the original CC was quite nicely appointed. The interior was quite good, IMO, and the body lines very very sleek/fresh at the time. Is the current CC still much nicer than the Passat? I haven't really seen one in person.

I think I've seen one in person, but I didn't get to look that closely. Personally, at least superficially, I find it a nicer car, and would prefer it over the Passat. But, would I prefer it enough to justify the premium?

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
He's worried that it is generating toxins that might hurt his kids if they ride in the car. He's got three young boys.

What would he do if he drove in the era of unleaded gas and lap belts?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Yeah probably true. But parents often operate on fear, not logic.

Yeah, no kidding. I should know.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
How did we all make it through the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's? Cars of back then spewed much more than today's vehicles (even the cheating ones).

Not everyone made it. Some died of cancer and other illnesses. Could it be partially attributed to vehicle pollution? I have no idea.