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#2549871 - 02/27/12 06:34 AM Re: UOA's and Engine Wear (again) [Re: INDYMAC]
pjf Offline

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Colorado
The plan is to save my samples (VOA & UOA) every 1,000 miles until you tell me which lab can give me a good test for transmission wear.

I suggested WearCheck because its elemental reports are more complete and includes sulfur (see links). I don't know the quality of its particle analysis. Thanks!

#2550128 - 02/27/12 11:42 AM Re: UOA's and Engine Wear (again) [Re: INDYMAC]
Quattro Pete Offline

Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 34582
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I really like both of these formats. Do you have to choose? Can you afford both until you decide to stick with one format over the other?

Wearcheck sets up an account for you on their web portal. Once you log in, you can access all these reports pertinent to whichever UOA service you requested (MOB2, MOB3, etc.).

You would normally start with MOB2, and only if the results turned up something abnormal, you would then request additional MOB3 test.
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

#2550185 - 02/27/12 12:31 PM Re: UOA's and Engine Wear (again) [Re: Quattro Pete]
pjf Offline

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Colorado
I already have an account with WearCheck. MOB-3 provides analytical ferrography (ASTM WK15810) for diagnosis of wear causality but does not provide a measurement of wear. It costs an additional $189 over the more common MOB-2 ($24) analysis.

I've collected VOA samples as a baseline. My UOA samples will be collected on the same transmission. The only variable between sampling periods may be the transmission fluid in order to compare the anti-wear performance of different fluids.

For UOA, is MOB-2 sufficient for measuring wear? If not, which ASTM test provides a more credible wear measurement?

#2550367 - 02/27/12 02:54 PM Re: UOA's and Engine Wear (again) [Re: pjf]
Quattro Pete Offline

Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 34582
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: pjf

For UOA, is MOB-2 sufficient for measuring wear?

I'm afraid that none of these $20 UOAs are sufficient for measuring wear. That is not what such tool was designed for. Instead, it should be used as a trending tool and a tool to help determine the condition of the oil and detect if you have any contaminants (fuel, coolant, water).

As you do your trending, if you see something that sticks out quite a bit, then it sounds like this MOB-3 would help give more info regarding wear.
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

#2552450 - 02/29/12 02:00 PM Re: UOA's and Engine Wear (again) [Re: buster]
ammolab Offline

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 874
Loc: Ruidoso, NM USA
A Blackstone Oil Analysis on my BMW M Coupe was showing Lead and Copper about Ten times the average for this engine (S54). As these powerplants have very fragile Rod Bearings, I had a local shop pull the Oil Pan to find #2 Rod Bearing worn down to pure copper. They said I would have lost the engine at some point in the near future.

Spotted wear for me!
2009 Honda CR-V
2011 BMW R1200R
2005 Kaw Ninja 250
1994 Jeep Wrangler 2.5L
2016 Chevy SS Sport Sedan

#2552784 - 02/29/12 07:38 PM Re: UOA's and Engine Wear (again) [Re: buster]
Cujet Offline

Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 6490
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I will never dispute that the common UOA can spot wear. Especially if you have a trend to watch. We use the simple tests for helicopter main transmission oil. Iron clearly shows up when wear is becoming a problem.

Here is a typical UOA from our heli main gearbox:

Iron 0.5, Copper 0, Nickel 0, Chromium 0, Silver 0 , Magn 0, Alum 0, Lead 0, Silicon 0.7, Titanium 0.2, Tin 0, Moly 0, H2O 1200.

In this case, when iron gets to about 15PPM, the gears are wearing abnormally.

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