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#1862654 - 04/18/10 10:19 PM What % pea?
5150ds Offline


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 37
Loc: SoCal
What % pea should I look for in a fuel system cleaner and what does pea stand for? Is it Polyether Amine?


Edited by 5150ds (04/18/10 10:20 PM)
_________________________
2005 G35 sedan 5 A/T
2006 Honda Odyssey EX

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#1862672 - 04/18/10 10:27 PM Re: What % pea? [Re: 5150ds]
DieselTech Offline


Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 1969
Loc: AZ
yes

The more the better
Everything I have seen from techron to regane and 200 others Redline SL-1 and Amsoil PI has the most

Redline is 35-50% I believe
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#1862677 - 04/18/10 10:34 PM Re: What % pea? [Re: DieselTech]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Index the % with the volume of the bottle. It's like "Extra Strength Tylenol". It breaks down to so many fluid ounces of PEA per 10-20 gallon tank.
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#1862819 - 04/19/10 05:11 AM from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: Gary Allan]
chad8 Offline


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 1341
Loc: michigan
SUMMARY

Symptoms: Gradually increasing car hesitation, power loss, sluggish acceleration, lowered fuel economy.

Cause (probable): Dirty fuel injectors, dirty engine valves, and combustion chamber deposits

Fix: Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus (or similar known PEA-containing (polyether amine) fuel system cleaner products like Gumout Regane, Redline SI-1, Amsoil Performance Improver, and BG Products 44K)

BACKGROUND


SUMMARIZED RESEARCH

Anytime you have gas burned in your engine chambers, not all of it burns up and youíll eventually get deposits forming on the valves, combustion chamber, and fuel injectors. Gasoline is supposed to have detergents in them to keep your engine parts clean (some top-tier gas have more detergents than the government specified amounts), but driving short distances without having your car fully warmed up can lead to faster accumulating deposits.

Although Iíve read other numerous posts, Iíve summarized a posterís notes from PriusChat.com in what can lead to engine power loss and hesitation:

When fuel injectors get clogged, the fuel spray pattern is affected (fuel normally is ďatomizedĒ but if an injector is clogged, it can form large droplets that donít vaporize easily), and the fuel may not completely burn once the spark plug fires or it may burn long after the optimal burn cycle has been initiated, causing an apparent loss of power. Next, the intake valves can become coated with deposits which can soak up injected gas and affect the burn cycle, and can block the flow of heat from the cylinder, again affecting the burn cycle, thereby decreasing the engineís power and economy. As the combustion chamber accumulates sharp-edged deposits, these sites can act as nucleation sites for pre-ignition (aka ďengine knock,Ē throwing off the carís timing (and again, loss of power)óthis can be evident in older cars that seemingly ďneedĒ premium fuel to reduce pinging.

THE APPARENT SOLUTION

A fuel system cleaner that contains PEA (polyether amine). Alternatively, you can pay your dealer for a fuel injection cleaning service (around $250). Nonetheless, Iím always the one to try a cheaper alternative before I buck up.

Chevron Techron Concentrate (32% PEA, based on an older published MSDS spec sheet--may be different now; $8 for 12oz. bottle) has been the leading fuel system cleaner since its development sometime in the 1970ís (it's also a touted leading detergent in gas, albeit in MUCH lower concentrations than the stand-alone concentrate formulation). The main active cleaning ingredient is PEA. Other known fuel system products containing PEA include the following:

* Gumout Regane (30-40% PEA content based on published MSDS data; about $5 for 12oz. bottle)
* Redline SI-1 (30-50% PEA based on MSDS data; about $9 for 15oz. bottle)
* Amsoil Performance Improver (28-37% PEA based on MSDS data; $10 for 12oz. bottle)
* BG Products 44K (unknown PEA content since they reformulatedódoes anyone have this data?).

Other than the active-cleaning PEA, each product has variable fillers/detergents (i.e. Gumout has kerosene, Redline seems to have an octane booster, Chevron and Amsoil have naptha among other ingredients). Iím sure that there are other PEA-containing fuel system cleaners, but the previously listed products (with the possible exception of BG 44K) are known, sure-fire products (so I can not recommend any other products). Also, as an FYI, the cheaper Chevron Fuel Injector cleaner is NOT the same as Chevron Techron Concentrateóitís just a watered down version of it from what Iíve read.

The use of the PEA fuel system cleaners is listed as every 3,000 miles. Personally, from what Iíve read, I would use the cleaner about 2 weeks before I got an oil change, as the cleaned up deposits will wash into your oilónot necessarily a bad thing as the oil can probably absorb and neutralize the deposits, but there will be peace of mind from having clean oil in the engine. Also, Iíd use the cleaner ideally when you can make longer drives in your car to allow the cleaner to do itís job at full operating temperature.

To use the PEA fuel system cleaners, get your gas down to about ľ tank. Put the whole bottle of PEA-containing fuel system cleaner in your tank, then fuel up to get it properly mixed. FYI, Chevron Techron Concentrate (12 oz treats up to 12 gallons), so I used two 12-oz. bottles as the GS400 has a 20 gallon tank. Follow the manufacturer instructions for the other products.

MY SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE

After putting in my PEA-containing fuel system cleaner, I drove the mile home uneventfully. The next morning, my car seemed to drive with a little more authority on the commute. Nonetheless, after driving around town later that day doing some extended errands (including some freeway jaunts), my car seemed to regain more power and I found that I didnít have to modulate my accelerator pedal as much to go a constant speed. After a week of more driving, these subjective findings were noted: the car did not hesitate as much, the sluggish acceleration significantly improved, and the power was more apparent. The car seemed to be a different beast and idles smoother and quieter than before.

The MAF and throttle cleaning helped somewhat, but I truly feel that the PEA-containing fuel system cleaner is the fix I've been looking for (cause: dirty injectors and valves). The PEA-containing fuel system cleaners saved me a few bucks (as the next potential step was to take it to the dealer for a diagnostic workup and/or fuel injector cleaning) and lets me enjoy the carís power again. Iíll report back if I something else develops.

Summarily, if your car has similar symptoms (hesitation, sluggish acceleration, rough idle, and power loss) as Iíve reported above, itís worth a shot trying the PEA-containing fuel system cleaners ($16 for 2 bottles of 12 oz. Chevron Techron Concentrate in my case) before moving to more expensive diagnostic options.

Some links that may be of interest:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/api.aspx

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourf...tives/tcp.aspx

http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/15.pdf

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_fueladditives.asp

I do have the published MSDS for each product (listed in the following posts)--the data may be outdated but the PEA concentrations are all pretty similar. Newer MSDS sheets are a bit more "cryptic" to read for each product.

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#1862840 - 04/19/10 06:24 AM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: chad8]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 47140
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Good summary, I'll just add that Amsoil PI has 4.5-9% of another amine for cleaning. (they use a generic organic chemistry name, substituted aliphatic amine)

These amines give products a distinctive aroma.

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#1862848 - 04/19/10 06:35 AM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: chad8]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 27966
Loc: NY
Nice write up, having used each of the products you mentioned I found the RL product to be the best. That is based on opinion, and not scientific tests. As with any of these products the average end user only has feel and the butt dino to judge by. Based on that, I will continue to use the RL product. JMO

Having spoken with Dave over at RL, he stated there is no need to change oil after the use of RL FI cleaner. Another nice feature is it can be used as a maint dose after an inital treatment, and it contains a UCL as well. I bought mine from Amazon.com and the price was very reasonable.
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#1862892 - 04/19/10 07:35 AM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: demarpaint]
pbm Offline


Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7050
Loc: New York
I agree...nice summary. I've used all of them except Amsoil. I usually throw a bottle of Regane in a few weeks before an oil change. Regane is the best value @ $5.XX at WM but they just went from 12 oz. to 6 (or maybe it's 8) oz. They say it has the same cleaning power as the old 12 oz. version.
I have always wondered whether it's best to put this in before a long drive or before regular driving. My thinking is the product gets more 'soak' time on the valves, injectors etc...after routine short drives.

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#1865221 - 04/20/10 09:05 PM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: pbm]
5150ds Offline


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 37
Loc: SoCal
Has anyone tried 3M max strength fuel system cleaner? The MSDS says between 30-60% PEA.
_________________________
2005 G35 sedan 5 A/T
2006 Honda Odyssey EX

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#1910846 - 06/02/10 02:29 PM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: 5150ds]
Scott2373 Offline


Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Williamson, NY USA


Edited by Scott2373 (06/02/10 02:30 PM)
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#1912744 - 06/04/10 08:48 AM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: Scott2373]
NightRiderQ45 Offline


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 941
Loc: Houston, TX
Where can you purchase the 3M product?
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2002 Lexus GS300
1998 FGY33 Infiniti Q45 257k....RIP


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#1913198 - 06/04/10 03:45 PM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: NightRiderQ45]
mikered30 Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1454
Loc: PA
I only ever saw it online, never in stores.

Cheapest places that has it: http://www.shop3m.com/60455031918.html?WT.mc_id=GoogleProdSearch

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#1914245 - 06/05/10 06:36 PM Re: from another site ... good informationon pea clean [Re: mikered30]
boxcartommie22 Offline


Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 3072
Loc: moutain country
napa has it
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