Quote:
The revised intake -- is that the dreaded gasket/coolant issue I've read about here in regard to the 3.1 and 3.4 engines? Is it a one-time fix? Are there external signs of this intake failing -- visible coolant leaks? Or maybe I should just insist that the dealer do the preemptive upgrade.
I can't tell from the pics if this is the Ultra (supercharged) model. If it is, are there known issues with that? The supercharged engine insists on premium, I believe?
I really like this one for its combination of looks and value. I don't care at this point if people think of it as an AARP member's car; I want a good comfortable ride in a reliable solid car I don't have to fuss with, at least not right away.
(And my long-time Benz mechanic thinks highly of Buicks, works on them, and tells me my parts costs will probably be quite a bit lower. . . .)
Ok Benzadmiral ,
Just a couple of general observations and some information to support your efforts here .
1.)
If you ( doesn't bother me in the least ) want avoid even the
possibility of a 'higher than normal' 'xyz gasket problem potential' on a 3800 in the years you are considering then 'one ultra conservative method' ( unnecc. so in my book ) is to go with a Series III L26 VIN CODE (eighth digit = ) equiped vehicle .
1b.) There is more build variation on the Series II than most realise - it can matter - and I'm going to ignore most of it - its more helpful that way - I think .
2.) 2003 PA (normally aspirated ??? ) can - do -???? come equiped with if you will , a 'special case' of the previous series , ie Series II ( RPO CODE L36 VIN CODE (#8) 'K' ) . ( This also means the potential problem here expresses differently than in earlier years - when applicable .)
3.) I don't have the details but there is a TSB or two on certain Supercharged 3.8s so to keep things manageable it might be good to know how this one is equiped .
(The following RPO CODES are in regards to normally aspirated engines .)
4.) You can , through 'informed inspection' usually determine if any of these things have been done already .
Here is some incomplete information from another thread here on this issue .
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A.) THIRD SAMPLE BULLETIN
< Redacted - not complete - as is the next one >
File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System
Bulletin No.: 03-06-01-016
Date: May, 2003
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Loss of Coolant, Milky Colored Oil
(Replace Intermediate Intake Gasket)
Models:
2000-2003 Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue, Regal
2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo
2000-2003 Pontiac Bonneville
2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L V6 Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)
Built Prior to the VIN Breakpoints shown. ( This would be good to know and apply - don't have here )>
Condition
Some owners may comment on a loss of coolant, coolant odor, having to add coolant or a milky substance on either the oil dipstick or oil fill cap. Additionally, owners may indicate that there are signs of coolant loss left on the ground where the vehicle is normally parked.
Cause
Condition may be due to coolant leaking past intermediate intake
or throttle body gaskets.
Correction
Important: The upper intake manifold
should not be replaced for a coolant leak condition, unless a
rare instance of physical damage is found. Even if the throttle body surface shows a slight warpage, the upper intake should not be replaced unless a drivability concern is noted or a relevant engine DTC, such as a code for an unmetered air leak, is set and the upper intake manifold
can clearly be shown as the cause of the concern.
Thoroughly check for any external leaks.
If no external leaks are found, then replace the intermediate intake manifold gasket and the throttle body gasket.
When changing the throttle body gasket,
the nuts that retain the throttle body should be replaced with a new design that improves torque retention. Medium strength thread locker should be applied to the studs before installing the new nuts.
Parts Information
Parts are currently available from GMSPO.
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B.)
FOURTH SAMPLE BULLETIN
Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-017
Date: May 26, 2004
INFORMATION
Subject:
New Upper Intake Manifold and Gasket Kits
( Note : This is a parts list update only - not a issue/solution - specific build tsb .)
Models:
1995-1997 Buick Riviera
1995-2004 Buick Park Avenue
1996-2004 Buick Regal
1997-2004 Buick LeSabre
1998-1999 Chevrolet Lumina
1998-2004 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2000-2004 Chevrolet Impala
1995-1996 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight
1995-1999 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight
1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue
1995-2004 Pontiac Bonneville
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
with 3.8L V6 Engine (VIN K - RPO L36)
New upper intake manifold and gasket kits have been released. These new kits will provide the dealer with the ability to get exactly what is necessary for a correct repair.
In addition some of the gaskets have been updated to a more robust design. Please reference the part numbers when ordering from GMSPO.
------
( Other information cont. )
C.) Series III (RPO ) L26 [ 3.8L FOLLOW UP TO L36 /NOT LISTED ]
The Series III motors include many changes. The upper intake manifold is now aluminum on the naturally aspirated models. Intake ports are midly improved, 1.83" intake valves (instead of 1.80" as on Series II) and 1.52" exhaust valves were introduced in 2003 engines, just before switching to Series III. Electronic throttle control is added to all versions, as is returnless fuel injection. Stronger powdered metal sinter forged connecting rods are used in 2004+ supercharged, and 2005+ naturally aspirated engines, instead of the cast iron style from Series II engines. Emissions are also reduced. In 2005, it was the first gasoline engine in the industry to attain SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle).
--> Also note that Series III engines are the base for
any 3800 produced for the 2004 year and up.
--> This means the same block, heads, & connecting rods apply to any remaining Series II engines made after 2004 also.
The difference is that Series III engines received the new intake manifolds, fuel systems, and electronics.
--------
D.) L26 Naturally Aspirated
The L26 is the Series III version of the 3800. It is still a 3.8 L design. Compression remains at 9.4:1 as with previous L36's, but the aluminum upper intake (2004+) and stronger connecting rods (2005+) are the primary physical changes. The powdered metal connecting rods were meant to be introduced in 2004 along with the
L32's, but the GM plant in Bay City, MI that supplies the Flint, MI plant could not achieve the desired produtcion dates in time for that engine year.
This engine is used in the following vehicles:
2004+ Pontiac Grand Prix
Buick LaCrosse
Buick Lucerne
----
So Benzadmiral ,
Trying to make sense of it all it looks like this from over here , based on this information and other ;
1.) There are useful distinctions in the Series II production in regards to 'potential gasket problem probabilities' ( and other good to have stuff . ) .
.
Crudely and with error but still safe , 1995-2003 ( there are meanigful distinctions here I am ignoring )/// 2002 - 2003 (Certian specific 'builds') /// 2004, 2004+ .
'Later production' is 'generally better' and 2003 is 'late enough' .
2.) The Series III is distinct from the Series II .
3.) FWIW , if the rest of this potental purchase 'falls into place' all the above wouldn't matter to me - that would be true even back to '95 ( and earlier ) on this engine . I would still feel this way even if I 'got caught' down the road .
