Mobil box?

[BLND1]

Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by BLND1
I use the havoline boxes currently. These things are quite stout. I'd wager they will be just as durable as the plastic jugs in the ASTM 2020.blnd1 bench drop test.

What do you do with your old oil?


You can refill the bag with the old oil - and because it's 6 quarts you can get the whole drain into one container (for most vehicles).

I use several bulk oil containers for engine/gear oil. I also use them for transmission fluid and coolant when needed. I'm lazy....

The box gets recycled and the bag gets drained over my oil filter drain and then thrown away. IMO much better result than bulky plastic.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by BLND1
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by BLND1
I use the havoline boxes currently. These things are quite stout. I'd wager they will be just as durable as the plastic jugs in the ASTM 2020.blnd1 bench drop test.

What do you do with your old oil?


You can refill the bag with the old oil - and because it's 6 quarts you can get the whole drain into one container (for most vehicles).

I use several bulk oil containers for engine/gear oil. I also use them for transmission fluid and coolant when needed. I'm lazy....

The box gets recycled and the bag gets drained over my oil filter drain and then thrown away. IMO much better result than bulky plastic.

For a 5 quart sump I'd have to have an empty quart jug to pour the remaining quart into, or hold onto the box for the next oil change. For me I'd rather buy quarts and 5 quart jugs as long as they're available. Having said that boxed oil appeals to some people.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by GMguy84
Now to wait for it drop to $5 on clearance.

Then i'm renting a uhaul and stocking up !!!!!!!


Dave

It will on May 1, 2020, when API SN becomes obsolete and API SP becomes the only way to go!

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by GMguy84
Now to wait for it drop to $5 on clearance.

Then i'm renting a uhaul and stocking up !!!!!!!


Dave

It will on May 1, 2020, when API SN becomes obsolete and API SP becomes the only way to go!

It's already D1G2, so SP/GF-6 offers nothing (substantively) beyond Dexos... but you're right in one sense, new non-GM owners manuals will likely just spec "API SP" so that' may drive down sales of API SN/+ lubes.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by GMguy84
Now to wait for it drop to $5 on clearance.

Then i'm renting a uhaul and stocking up !!!!!!!


Dave
It will on May 1, 2020, when API SN becomes obsolete and API SP becomes the only way to go!

It's already D1G2, so SP/GF-6 offers nothing (substantively) beyond Dexos... but you're right in one sense, new non-GM owners manuals will likely just spec "API SP" so that' may drive down sales of API SN/+ lubes.

Isn't SP/GF-6 aligned with the upcoming dexos1 Gen 3?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by GMguy84
Now to wait for it drop to $5 on clearance.

Then i'm renting a uhaul and stocking up !!!!!!!


Dave
It will on May 1, 2020, when API SN becomes obsolete and API SP becomes the only way to go!

It's already D1G2, so SP/GF-6 offers nothing (substantively) beyond Dexos... but you're right in one sense, new non-GM owners manuals will likely just spec "API SP" so that' may drive down sales of API SN/+ lubes.

Isn't SP/GF-6 aligned with the upcoming dexos1 Gen 3?

No, GF-6 aligns with D1G2. The article below, with quotes from Oronite's lead guy, addresses your question. Performance wise, D1G2 and GF-6 will be very similar but not exactly the same, with API still allowing a max volatility of 15% for example. There's some difference in testing as well but SP/GF-6 will incorporate the timing chain wear test and turbo deposits test for the first time IIRC. SP also incorporates SN+, which is something D1G2 has addressed for some time. D1 Gen3 will push the performance envelope further with tighter limits and an even lower volatility (12~12.5%). GM is targeting sometime in late Q1 early Q2 2021 for Gen3 licensing.

Nice thing is GM's desire to stay relevant in the standards setting arena (outside of ILSAC), as well as continue to make a buck on licensing, means better oil for us!

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/ilsac-gf-5-to-gf-6-bridging-the-gap/

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Isn't SP/GF-6 aligned with the upcoming dexos1 Gen 3?
No, GF-6 aligns with D1G2. The article below, with quotes from Oronite's lead guy, addresses your question. Performance wise, D1G2 and GF-6 will be very similar but not exactly the same, with API still allowing a max volatility of 15% for example. There's some difference in testing as well but SP/GF-6 will incorporate the timing chain wear test and turbo deposits test for the first time IIRC. SP also incorporates SN+, which is something D1G2 has addressed for some time. D1 Gen3 will push the performance envelope further with tighter limits and an even lower volatility (12~12.5%). GM is targeting sometime in late Q1 early Q2 2021 for Gen3 licensing.

Nice thing is GM's desire to stay relevant in the standards setting arena (outside of ILSAC), as well as continue to make a buck on licensing, means better oil for us!

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/ilsac-gf-5-to-gf-6-bridging-the-gap/

I disagree.

Note that the article you linked is quite outdated (published in August 2017). It merely speculated about the specs before either GF-6 or dexos1 Gen 3 was introduced. Now that they both have been introduced, a lot more is known, and the following article summarizes it:

GM releases dexos1 Gen 3 details

Quoting from this recent article: "Speaking at the ICIS Pan-American Base Oils & Lubricants Conference in Jersey City, New Jersey, GM powertrain vehicle fluids technical specialist Khaled Zreik said GM made significant changes to align with ILSAC GF-6, the North American auto industry's specification scheduled for commercial launch in May. Gen 3 includes most GF-6 engine tests but also has additional requirements that could complicate work for oil marketers wanting to offer products that meet both specs."

It looks like we will have the GM dexos1 Gen 3 oils shortly after the ILSAC GF-6/API SP launch on May 1, 2020, if not simultaneously with it.

I think the proper way to look at this is that dexos1 takes a given ILSAC/API spec and builds upon it, by placing stricter test limits as well as placing a few extra tests. dexos1 Gen 1 was built on ILSAC GF-5/API SN and so was dexos1 Gen 2. API SN PLUS was a stopgap before API SP (ILSAC GF-6) to incorporate an LSPI test. Likewise dexos1 Gen 2 was also a stopgap before dexos1 Gen 3 to incorporate an LSPI test and a turbocharger test. Contrary to what was reported on BITOG, a timing-chain wear test was never included. Neither SN PLUS nor dexos1 Gen 2 are major revisions, other than taking care of the LSPI issue, which amounted to reducing the calcium detergent and replacing some of with a magnesium detergent. Some oils, such as Mobil 1, did not even need a reformulation with dexos1 Gen 2, as they already had low calcium.

ILSAC GF-6/API SN is a major revision, and it introduces many (I think more than half a dozen) new engine tests. Unlike dexos1 Gen 2, dexos 1 Gen 3 will use the GF-6 engine tests. Of course, you are right that dexos1 Gen 3 is a stricter spec than GF-6/SP, as it has stricter test limits and a few additional tests.

Here are the dexos1 (2010), dexos1 Gen 2 (2015), and dexos2 (2009) specs (Excel file):

http://www.centerforqa.com/media/D1-Candidiate-Data-Package-2016-02-25.xls

The long story short, GF-6/SP and dexos1 Gen 3 both require reformulation of existing oils. No existing oil that already has dexos1 Gen 2 will go unreformulated before it receives dexos1 Gen 3. This is unlike the dexos1 Gen 1 - Gen 2 transition. Likewise no existing oil that already has SN PLUS will go unreformulated before it receives SP/GF-6. There is a reason for this: When major spec revisions occur, additive companies update their additive packages. With ILSAC GF-6/API SP and dexos1 Gen 3, we are seeing major oil-spec revisions of any sort for the first time in ten years, and this is a good reason for the oil enthusiasts to get excited.

 

[tundraotto]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Isn't SP/GF-6 aligned with the upcoming dexos1 Gen 3?
No, GF-6 aligns with D1G2. The article below, with quotes from Oronite's lead guy, addresses your question. Performance wise, D1G2 and GF-6 will be very similar but not exactly the same, with API still allowing a max volatility of 15% for example. There's some difference in testing as well but SP/GF-6 will incorporate the timing chain wear test and turbo deposits test for the first time IIRC. SP also incorporates SN+, which is something D1G2 has addressed for some time. D1 Gen3 will push the performance envelope further with tighter limits and an even lower volatility (12~12.5%). GM is targeting sometime in late Q1 early Q2 2021 for Gen3 licensing.

Nice thing is GM's desire to stay relevant in the standards setting arena (outside of ILSAC), as well as continue to make a buck on licensing, means better oil for us!

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/ilsac-gf-5-to-gf-6-bridging-the-gap/

I disagree.

Note that the article you linked is quite outdated (published in August 2017). It merely speculated about the specs before either GF-6 or dexos1 Gen 3 was introduced. Now that they both have been introduced, a lot more is known, and the following article summarizes it:

GM releases dexos1 Gen 3 details

Quoting from this recent article: "Speaking at the ICIS Pan-American Base Oils & Lubricants Conference in Jersey City, New Jersey, GM powertrain vehicle fluids technical specialist Khaled Zreik said GM made significant changes to align with ILSAC GF-6, the North American auto industry's specification scheduled for commercial launch in May. Gen 3 includes most GF-6 engine tests but also has additional requirements that could complicate work for oil marketers wanting to offer products that meet both specs."

It looks like we will have the GM dexos1 Gen 3 oils shortly after the ILSAC GF-6/API SP launch on May 1, 2020, if not simultaneously with it.

I think the proper way to look at this is that dexos1 takes a given ILSAC/API spec and builds upon it, by placing stricter test limits as well as placing a few extra tests. dexos1 Gen 1 was built on ILSAC GF-5/API SN and so was dexos1 Gen 2. API SN PLUS was a stopgap before API SP (ILSAC GF-6) to incorporate an LSPI test. Likewise dexos1 Gen 2 was also a stopgap before dexos1 Gen 3 to incorporate an LSPI test and a turbocharger test. Contrary to what was reported on BITOG, a timing-chain wear test was never included. Neither SN PLUS nor dexos1 Gen 2 are major revisions, other than taking care of the LSPI issue, which amounted to reducing the calcium detergent and replacing some of with a magnesium detergent. Some oils, such as Mobil 1, did not even need a reformulation with dexos1 Gen 2, as they already had low calcium.

ILSAC GF-6/API SN is a major revision, and it introduces many (I think more than half a dozen) new engine tests. Unlike dexos1 Gen 2, dexos 1 Gen 3 will use the GF-6 engine tests. Of course, you are right that dexos1 Gen 3 is a stricter spec than GF-6/SP, as it has stricter test limits and a few additional tests.

Here are the dexos1 (2010), dexos1 Gen 2 (2015), and dexos2 (2009) specs (Excel file):

http://www.centerforqa.com/media/D1-Candidiate-Data-Package-2016-02-25.xls

The long story short, GF-6/SP and dexos1 Gen 3 both require reformulation of existing oils. No existing oil that already has dexos1 Gen 2 will go unreformulated before it receives dexos1 Gen 3. This is unlike the dexos1 Gen 1 - Gen 2 transition. Likewise no existing oil that already has SN PLUS will go unreformulated before it receives SP/GF-6. There is a reason for this: When major spec revisions occur, additive companies update their additive packages. With ILSAC GF-6/API SP and dexos1 Gen 3, we are seeing major oil-spec revisions of any sort for the first time in ten years, and this is a good reason for the oil enthusiasts to get excited.

I thought Pennzoil was bragging just a little while ago that their Platinum (et. al) oils would all qualify for GF-6 WITHOUT any reformulations.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
I thought Pennzoil was bragging just a little while ago that their Platinum (et. al) oils would all qualify for GF-6 WITHOUT any reformulations.

I doubt if this is even possible. The oil-additive companies Infineum, Lubrizol, Afton, Vanderbilt, etc. will soon stop making GF-5 additives and start exclusively selling GF-6 additives. Pennzoil/Shell will have no option but to reformulate their oils.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by tundraotto
I thought Pennzoil was bragging just a little while ago that their Platinum (et. al) oils would all qualify for GF-6 WITHOUT any reformulations.

I doubt if this is even possible. The oil-additive companies Infineum, Lubrizol, Afton, Vanderbilt, etc. will soon stop making GF-5 additives and start exclusively selling GF-6 additives. Pennzoil/Shell will have no option but to reformulate their oils.

Pennzoil claims it's Platinum lineup is "GF-6 Ready"..

Additionally, from the GF-6 Q&A..

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Pennzoil claims it's Platinum lineup is "GF-6 Ready"..

If they aren't updating Pennzoil Platinum's additive package, that's a bummer. That means Pennzoil Yellow Bottle will now have a better additive package than Pennzoil Platinum. For example Lubrizol has announced their GF-6 additive package:

https://newscenter.lubrizol.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lubrizol-ready-ilsac-gf-6

 

[tundraotto]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Pennzoil claims it's Platinum lineup is "GF-6 Ready"..

If they aren't updating Pennzoil Platinum's additive package, that's a bummer. That means Pennzoil Yellow Bottle will now have a better additive package than Pennzoil Platinum. For example Lubrizol has announced their GF-6 additive package:

https://newscenter.lubrizol.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lubrizol-ready-ilsac-gf-6


I think they are saying their stuff was good enough already......and as far as the PYB - is the addpack really going to be better than their top lines?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
I think they are saying their stuff was good enough already......and as far as the PYB - is the addpack really going to be better than their top lines?

Better additive pack makes up for worse base oil. PYB may not pass all the new GF-6 tests without the latest additive pack because it uses a Group II/II+ base oil. Contrarily PP may pass all the new GF-6 tests with an inferior additive pack -- without a formulation change -- because it has a superior base oil.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Pennzoil claims it's Platinum lineup is "GF-6 Ready"..

If they aren't updating Pennzoil Platinum's additive package, that's a bummer. That means Pennzoil Yellow Bottle will now have a better additive package than Pennzoil Platinum. For example Lubrizol has announced their GF-6 additive package:

https://newscenter.lubrizol.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lubrizol-ready-ilsac-gf-6

Lubrizol already had a GF-6 add pk in it's D1G2 pkg.. but my suspicions are that Lubrizol went and formulated a new pkg because they wanted to get ahead of the upcoming Dexos Gen3 spec? (and prolly a good sell point for prospective formulators).. Notice how they (Lubrizol) says it's new pkg is positioned for "future GM specs"?

 

[Gokhan]

I don't know if you can determine the actual formulation from the Pennzoil bottles, but you can easily do so from the ExxonMobil bottles.

The date and formulation codes on ExxonMobil bottles look like this. 10214B14A reads plant 102, date of manufacture 2014 February (B = 2) 14, in that order. The revision number (formulation number) is 5953, which tells you what the actual formulation is. Note that the revision number (RN) only reflects the actual formulation and not the bottle or label. The QR codes at the bottom of the labels are to identify the front and back labels only. You can have the same labels but a different formulation (revision number). Likewise you can have different labels but the same formulation (revision number).

Therefore, you can easily tell if the formulations for the Mobil 1 SN and Mobil 1 SP are the same or different from the revision number (formulation number) in the date stamp.

 

[SteveG4]

Yep. This is NOT a great price for this oil. Quantity did NOT lower the price.
And yes, Chevron's Havoline-branded oil did hit the sweep spot with its 6-quart boxes.