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Let's Talk Porsche 911 #5356156 02/21/20 03:51 AM
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john_pifer Offline OP
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I've had a fascination with these cars for a long time.

It started when I was a kid in the '80s, and I noticed these strange little teardrop-shaped cars with the funny name across the back, that looked so different from everything else on the road in Memphis, Tennessee.

Then, I can remember, in the late '90s, a buddy bought a late-'90s Mustang GT convertible, and he took a couple of friends and me out to drive downtown. At one point, we pulled up at a stoplight next to a black Porsche 911 convertible. It must have been air-cooled, because the noise that came from the aft of that thing when dude stomped the gas was beautifully mechanical and unmuffled as he shifted from 1st into 2nd, and then 3rd. My buddy and his Mustang had no chance. Not sure what year it was, but I don't think it was current.

I've just always wanted one of these cars. I love the idea of the horizontally-opposed engine, for starters. And the fact that it's mounted out back. These cars are just different. The 911 seems engineered for sporty driving, and that's what I like to do. I sold my WRX nearly a year ago, (Porsche substitute I had for a few years), but, when I had it, my favorite thing in the world to do was to take it out to the mountains of East Tennessee and Western North Carolina and find the crookedest (is that a word?) roads I could find, and drive them as fast as I could.

I just like that the 911 is different.

I don't think I would want the Turbo. Just the naturally-aspirated model. 2WD. And definitely manual transmission.

Hel, I'm not sure I could afford one. Definitely be looking at older models. I'm not sure what they go for.

I'd want a nice example. If I got to the point where I was ready to get one, I'd plan to keep it for a long time, if not forever. It would be a toy for my soon-to-be-wife and I (she's a car enthusiast also) to take out on the weekends and possibly do a trackday or autocross event from time to time.

I realize that there are faster cars out there for the money. I care more about handling and the experience of driving, than the outright number of horsepower. I mean, I do want some power. I'd say I'd probably want at least as much as my WRX had, which was 268. I want something that has a very mechanical feel; I don't care about lots of electronics and complexity; just give me a car with great driving dynamics. Great steering, great brakes, excellent cornering, great brake feel and a connection from accelerator pedal to throttle that feels almost telepathic. Obviously it needs to make great noises!

I like the idea of a naturally-aspirated 911 for a few reasons, including an NA powerband that makes power in a crescendo to redline. Also reduced complexity and weight. And the exhaust note will sound better. Same reason I don't want 4WD. I don't need the extra weight and complexity and maintenance. The car will never be driven in snow/ice.

I like that they put the ignition to the left of the steering wheel. Jump in, release parking brake, right hand on shifter, crank engine with left hand, GO!

So, I guess I'm kinda daydreaming about 911s at this point, and just wanting to get a conversation started with some of the enthusiasts here on the forum. I did do a search for Porsche 911 threads. There are a few - mainly UOAs. Unless I missed it, we don't have a thread where we're just talking about the Porsche 911. Its ins and outs. The things that are fun about the car, the things that made it great and made it a legend in the racing and sports driving world, as well as its quirks, problems, shortcomings, etc.

When I did my search, I came across forum member rooflessVW's thread about detailing his 911 (2003, I think?) and getting it ready to sell. Beautiful car. Why on earth did you sell it, man?!

If I were rich, I'd buy one of the last air-cooled 911 Carreras from 1996 or 1997. But something tells me they're probably pretty valuable.

So, I'm just kinda starting to do some research and get some conversation started. Learn more about the cars, all the different models, their quirks, what they go for, particular ones to avoid, best ones to buy, all that. I'd obviously want the most car I could get for my money.

So who here owns a 911 currently? Who has had one or more 911s in the past? What do you think about them? Why did you buy one? What do you love about the car? Anything you don't like about it? If you bought one recently, do you mind sharing what you paid? How reliable was/is your 911? What problems have you had?

Are there particular years that are best to avoid?

Obviously I have a ton of questions!

Please feel free to post photos of your 911s!

Thanks guys.

I included a few photos of some 911s I found in a quick search. I love that '79 911 S/C (black with tan interior). 78,000 original miles on that one. Currently for sale out of Campbell, CA. Asking $44,000. Wow.


1974 911 RSR 2.1 Turbo.jpg1995-Porsche-911-GT2-V3-1536.jpg1995-Porsche-911-GT2-V7-1600.jpgblack 79 911 sc rear.jpg79 911 tan interior.jpg

07 Tacoma V6 - M1 EP 5W-30, Fram Ultra, 10K OCIs, 225K
18 Civic HB 1.5T 6MT (Fiancee's) - VME 0W-20, OEM filter
07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300
07 Yamaha YZ-250, Klotz, Rotella

Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356172 02/21/20 04:22 AM
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Olas Online Content
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The best 911 IMO was the 964. Last of the aircooled engines, best proportioned and most attractive, not overly technological (no DI or electric steering rack or DSG) with plenty of driver involvement and feedback.
Test drive a 964 and it will convince you to go shopping.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356175 02/21/20 04:23 AM
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Olas Online Content
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Cable ties should hold it
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356177 02/21/20 04:38 AM
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KneeGrinder Offline
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Its late, and I'm going to bed, so here is my advice,

Buy 1991-94 C2

1995-97 C2

If you hit the lotto, buy a 1996 Turbo S, and don't kill your self!

I have had the first two, they were convertibles or I would have never sold the 96, 993, they are louder than I could stand. They give no warning when they snap the rear and do 360's, if your going too fast, well you might not fair to well.

They are a true race car feel, but your going to need a second car! Maybe a third...Not Porsche's, daily drivers. They eat rear tires too. Chicks try to get in your car where ever you go, unless the wife is sitting in the pass seat. The Wife will be mad when you buy it, she will be happy when you sell it. She will think of something to spend the money on when it get sold, unless you sell it without her knowing and buy another one...lol


08 Tribeca 90k PUP 5w30
06 Accord 137k PP 0w20
03 Acura CL-S 90k M1 AP 5W20
02 Acura TL-S 241k ST 5W30
02 Accord EX 155k PP 0W20
02 K3500 99k M 1 ESP 5w40
00 F350 139k M 1300 15w40
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: Olas] #5356178 02/21/20 04:39 AM
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KneeGrinder Offline
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Originally Posted by Olas
The best 911 IMO was the 964. Last of the aircooled engines, best proportioned and most attractive, not overly technological (no DI or electric steering rack or DSG) with plenty of driver involvement and feedback.
Test drive a 964 and it will convince you to go shopping.


You have good taste. But 1995-97's are 993's and they are the last of the "Oil" cooled motors.

porsh.png
Last edited by KneeGrinder; 02/21/20 04:45 AM.

08 Tribeca 90k PUP 5w30
06 Accord 137k PP 0w20
03 Acura CL-S 90k M1 AP 5W20
02 Acura TL-S 241k ST 5W30
02 Accord EX 155k PP 0W20
02 K3500 99k M 1 ESP 5w40
00 F350 139k M 1300 15w40
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: KneeGrinder] #5356186 02/21/20 05:43 AM
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Olas Online Content
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Originally Posted by KneeGrinder
Originally Posted by Olas
The best 911 IMO was the 964. Last of the aircooled engines, best proportioned and most attractive, not overly technological (no DI or electric steering rack or DSG) with plenty of driver involvement and feedback.
Test drive a 964 and it will convince you to go shopping.


You have good taste. But 1995-97's are 993's and they are the last of the "Oil" cooled motors.



If you want a 993, you go buy yourself a 993.

However, in respect to the thread title "Lets talk Porsche 911" I did exactly that. I talked about the most attractive and enjoyable 911. It doesnt say "Lets Talk 993/996 etc", and the OP states that a black 911 pulled up beside them - there were plenty 964s on the road in the 90s..

There was a golden time when Porsches were modern enough to be good but not so modern that all the goodness has been legally mandated away. that golden time was the 964 era.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356197 02/21/20 06:17 AM
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PowerSurge Offline
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It sounds like you’ve given this a lot of thought. Save your money and buy a manual 911. If you can save enough spring for a 964. I’ve had mine almost 19 years and it’s been rock solid. I could repeat a lot of what Olas said but I’ll just say I am 100% in agreement with him. I don’t want or need technology to ‘help’ me drive.

There’s nothing like driving a manual 911 with the windows down on a nice day.


1993 Porsche 964, 2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning, 2004 Chevrolet Corvette, 2018 Toyota Tundra and a few others
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356250 02/21/20 08:21 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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I don't blame you. Driving Tail of the Dragon in a 911 would fun. There are some good books out there on how to buy a used 911. IIRC a former BITOG contributor by the name of Doug Hillary wrote a book about it. You could always send him a PM.


Oh and don't forget that Porsche NA is located near Hartsfield Airport in Atlanta and they have a track !

https://www.porschedriving.com/atlanta/on-the-track

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 02/21/20 08:21 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356252 02/21/20 08:27 AM
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Cujet Offline
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The only Porsche I've owned was a 914-6. It was a blast.

However, I've driven a number of 911's during track days and in general goofing off. I've always LOVED the way they feel. I'm not proud of it, but I even went off the track (Homestead, FL) at speed, as the rear end came out and around I went into the gravel in the classic 911 rookie move. Could I have saved it? NOPE! Despite the claims that in a 911, it's a snap-action event, this was not. The rear lost traction and despite the countersteering, the rear kept coming out over what seemed to be a long period of time. Eventually, gravel and dust were everwhere, along with a big stupid grin, having survived a high speed excursion unharmed.

A friend had a really nice 930 turbo with air conditioning. (the AC condensor was mounted flat under the belly of the car) I really enjoyed driving that thing, with it's huge turbocharger. Not a lot of boost, and not a lot of low end, but Soooooooo much fun when driven correctly. Lots of mechanical noise, and a really nice rush of power when the boost gauge hovered just under 1 Bar. It was a 13 second car due to it's good launch. But today, it's performance feels to me to be about that of a Civic type R.

For all of their strong points, they are, in my opinion, all a little quirky. It's generally agreed that the quirky personality traits generate a lot of love, and I think that's right. The one thing I have trouble with is that they are quite small and I feel a bit cramped in 'em.

I recently owned a turbocharged Honda S2000. While it was plenty fast, it was devoid of the personality I find so appealing. Porsche seems to get that right.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356258 02/21/20 08:34 AM
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atikovi Offline
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The older models often bring more money than the newer ones. The trick is to find the sweet spot between depreciation and appreciation. i.e., the bottom of the curve, which for these cars seem to be in the early 2000's. With some persistance, you sould be able find decent ones under $10K. They might have over 100k miles or be rebuilt salvage, but they are out there.

Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356304 02/21/20 09:33 AM
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Sveina Offline
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Some thoughts from my experience. The older 911s are light, but not that great handling. It's not easy to use it's real potential without risk. Probably better than most american sports cars from the same age tho. The older 911s would have much lesser handling than the same age 924 and 944s. An older 911 with proper setup and a driver which knows how to drive a 911 fast would be ok, but then would require alot of setup tweaks and track days to get at. The 996 and newer suspension tech (at least the RoW versions) is a very big leap foreward compared to the 993, much more than the years will indicate. And btw, the water cooling is simply because it is better than air cooling... As on my turbo, I can switch off the ESP system with a button to stage one, and for leaving it completely off even under braking you just pull a fuse. So not really feeling the electronic intervensions disturbing alot. The Carrera engines is not so good as the engine used in the turbo/GT2/GT3. The older 911s is a good posers car, so I would think about what is the purpose of the car. And I would test drive the whole lot. The hunt for the right car is almost as good as getting it!


Current: '07 MB E320 CDI 4matic, '06 MB S550, '02 Porsche 996 twinturbo, '01 Dodge Viper GTS 8,1, '03 Peugeot 206 RC (race), '03 Peugeot 206 GTI.
Using Lubrication Engineers
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356308 02/21/20 09:40 AM
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drtyler Offline
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The best deals on the older models are 74-77, and you are looking at min of $20k for a good one. They maintain the slimmer appearance of the early cars, but they have the impact bumpers. The 2.7 is a decent engine if it has been sorted out, although the 3.0 and 3.2 in the later cars are much stronger. The AC's in these cars (pre-993) are just ok, and most of the 70's cars didn't have them.

The absolute best deal is a 996. It's a modern car with decent AC and decent interior. The prices are still reasonable.

No other car on the road drives, feels, or sounds like an aircooled 911 though. They are very unique and rewarding. They are awesome, but I'm biased.

Last edited by drtyler; 02/21/20 09:45 AM.
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356310 02/21/20 09:43 AM
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Olas Online Content
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geometry can be manipulated to provide more stability and sure-footedness at the expense of poise and finesse if you want a stable car, but, being able to enjoy driving a fast car on a track is entirely dependent upon it being reactive and adjustable. You cant have one without the other, unfortuantely.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356337 02/21/20 10:18 AM
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One of my friends had a [around] 1977 930 and it was a really fun car loud and stiff suspension it really let you know you were going fast. That being said I would without a second thought buy a modern Hellcat equipped car or a super Mustang or Corvette before any Porsche and I like Porsches.


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: Let's Talk Porsche 911 [Re: john_pifer] #5356349 02/21/20 10:41 AM
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krismoriah72 Offline
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"It started when I was a kid in the '80s"

about the same age as me... sounds like a mid-life crisis fun car..

If you can afford it, and willing to deal with with whatever goes wrong go for it.


You are not alone, alot of us go with Harleys, Boats, UTVs, etc etc.. You are only this age once..

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