Do new Jeeps have death wobble?

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
It happens a lot to Jeeps under warranty that are 100 percent bone stock. Fiat has lemon lawed many bone stock Jeeps over this.
Correct.

 

[dlundblad]

When I lifted my Jeep 10 years ago, I was so worried it was going to get the DW. Thankfully nothing yet.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by ls1mike
I remember my BIL had death wobble in his 1998 Dodge 3500 dually. When it first happened I had not heard of it.
He told me, I took it for a ride nothing. Brought it back he said do it again...Scared the ever living BLEEP out of me.
I did some researched and we fixed it. Never had the problem again. It was the wildest thing.


Many Jeeps never experience it until they are lifted. The lift puts more strain on already worn steering parts and one little pothole can trigger the death wobble.


It happens a lot to Jeeps under warranty that are 100 percent bone stock. Fiat has lemon lawed many bone stock Jeeps over this.




I don't doubt that. But it still goes back to what actually causes the death wobble, whether the vehicle is new (and poorly put together) or 20 years old...

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
How come Wranglers don't just use half shafts and independent front suspension? That's done on other body-on-frame vehicles, as my 4x4 F150 front end is like that. I used half metaphorically, the shaft length isn't a whole half length of the span. I get the need for a solid front axle on an HD truck, but Wranglers aren't heavy duty haulers. Does going to CV joints, short shafts, and independent suspension reduce off road superiority that much? I'm asking only because I don't know, not trying to be provocative.


Solid axles are superior off-road due to the amount of suspension travel (axle droop, etc) especially when lifted. This can be further enhanced with something like a long-arm kit.

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
How come Wranglers don't just use half shafts and independent front suspension? That's done on other body-on-frame vehicles, as my 4x4 F150 front end is like that. I used half metaphorically, the shaft length isn't a whole half length of the span. I get the need for a solid front axle on an HD truck, but Wranglers aren't heavy duty haulers. Does going to CV joints, short shafts, and independent suspension reduce off road superiority that much? I'm asking only because I don't know, not trying to be provocative.


Costlier to lift and worse off road.

 

[Donald]

Worn suspension parts. Worn factory shocks and steering stabilizer. Replace with Bilstein. Get alignment near perfect, better than just within tolerance.

I think non factory wheels with different offset than factory may contribute also.

 

[pezzy669]

Borrowed a friends '05-'07ish Wrangler Unlimited (the long wheelbase edition) for a road trip from Atlanta-Charlotte - had about 78k miles on it at the time. Got the death wobble 3 times on that trip, hitting road expansion joints on a curve seemed to be the trigger. It was pretty frightening the first time, had to just let off the gas and coast down to about 50-55MPH for it to stop. Asked him about it when I brought it back and he was just like 'oh it does that....you just slow down until it stops then speed back up' and no he is not a car person.

 

[Pew]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
Borrowed a friends '05-'07ish Wrangler Unlimited (the long wheelbase edition) for a road trip from Atlanta-Charlotte - had about 78k miles on it at the time. Got the death wobble 3 times on that trip, hitting road expansion joints on a curve seemed to be the trigger. It was pretty frightening the first time, had to just let off the gas and coast down to about 50-55MPH for it to stop. Asked him about it when I brought it back and he was just like 'oh it does that....you just slow down until it stops then speed back up' and no he is not a car person.


Wow how are they even still legal on the streets....

 

[wtd]

My fiancée's step-dad has a 2017 F350 with about 20,000 miles on it that recently got the death wobble. He took it to the dealer and they are ordering a new front steering stabilizer for it. I guess we will see if that fixes the issue.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by pezzy669
Borrowed a friends '05-'07ish Wrangler Unlimited (the long wheelbase edition) for a road trip from Atlanta-Charlotte - had about 78k miles on it at the time. Got the death wobble 3 times on that trip, hitting road expansion joints on a curve seemed to be the trigger. It was pretty frightening the first time, had to just let off the gas and coast down to about 50-55MPH for it to stop. Asked him about it when I brought it back and he was just like 'oh it does that....you just slow down until it stops then speed back up' and no he is not a car person.


Wow how are they even still legal on the streets....


Same reason SFA HD trucks are still legal on the streets, which are just as prone to it.

 

[PowerSurge]

^^^. Other sfa vehicles aren't "just as prone to it". Possible, yes. But not as prone. Fiat has even been sued in federal court in Detroit over the death wobble in their Jeeps:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/28531...on-lawsuit-against-fca-over-death-wobble

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by wtd
My fiancée's step-dad has a 2017 F350 with about 20,000 miles on it that recently got the death wobble. He took it to the dealer and they are ordering a new front steering stabilizer for it. I guess we will see if that fixes the issue.

Steering stabilizers are always a bandaid fix to mask what is actually worn out. A solid front axle vehicle/Jeep with a properly working steering and suspension should be able to drive without the stabilizer and get no death wobble. The stabilizer is meant to help with controlling bump steer from wheels striking potholes, railroad tracks, etc.

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by wtd
My fiancée's step-dad has a 2017 F350 with about 20,000 miles on it that recently got the death wobble. He took it to the dealer and they are ordering a new front steering stabilizer for it. I guess we will see if that fixes the issue.

Steering stabilizers are always a bandaid fix to mask what is actually worn out. A solid front axle vehicle/Jeep with a properly working steering and suspension should be able to drive without the stabilizer and get no death wobble. The stabilizer is meant to help with controlling bump steer from wheels striking potholes, railroad tracks, etc.

I personally doubt it fixes the problem but who knows. I doubt with only 20,000 miles on the truck that the front end is wore out. From what I've read, Ford doesn't know what is causing this problem.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by wtd

I personally doubt it fixes the problem but who knows. I doubt with only 20,000 miles on the truck that the front end is wore out. From what I've read, Ford doesn't know what is causing this problem.


I doubt it is worn out also, same with the new Jeeps. I wouldn't be surprised if the factory parts are sub-par though.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
^^^. Other sfa vehicles aren't "just as prone to it". Possible, yes. But not as prone. Fiat has even been sued in federal court in Detroit over the death wobble in their Jeeps:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/28531...on-lawsuit-against-fca-over-death-wobble


I thought you had me on ignore

I already posted earlier in the thread as to the significant presence this issue has in the SFA truck scene, but since, you appear to be trying to downplay it:

Ford has been sued over the issue too:
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2019/ford-truck-death-wobble-lawsuit-f-250-f-350.shtml

Per your link:
Quote
owners of unmodified, near-new Wranglers have complained of the "death wobble" since 1995. A 2012 article from Autoguide reports on over 600 complaints filed with the NHTSA by Wrangler owners between 1995 and 2012.


Per my link:
Quote
The lawsuit references 1,265 death wobble complaints that were submitted to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) between March 10, 2005, and February 6, 2019. According to data from the lawsuit, 12 reports involved crashes and injuries and 82 complaints indicated a loss of control of the trucks.


So accounting for Ford probably selling more F-250's and F-350's than Jeep sells Wranglers, I'll maintain simply that they are "just as prone" to it, to bridge the chasm between the 600 NHTSA filings for the Wrangler and 1,265 for the Super Duty.

 

[PowerSurge]

^^^^. That is some serious extrapolation gymnastics you are throwing out there. I'm not trying to downplay it at all. Try to remove the fiat rose colored glasses and you'll see that. Ford should have a lot more complaints than what is stated since the f-series outsells Jeeps and they are the number one selling vehicle in the country and has been for years and years.

I will say this. Your indefatigable defending of fiat is cute though. You should see if they'll put you on their payroll.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
^^^^. That is some serious extrapolation gymnastics you are throwing out there. I'm not trying to downplay it at all. Try to remove the fiat rose colored glasses and you'll see that. Ford should have a lot more complaints than what is stated since the f-series outsells Jeeps and they are the number one selling vehicle in the country and has been for years and years.

I will say this. Your indefatigable defending of fiat is cute though. You should see if they'll put you on their payroll.

There he is! As you apparently weren't able to figure out, the "F-series" includes the F-150, which makes up the vast, VAST majority of Ford truck sales. For example, per JD Power for 2018 Ford sold:
- Super Duty: 264,388
- F-150: 623,980

Now, since you were seemingly willing to wade into this debate blissfully unaware of that; factually unarmed so to speak, I'll point out another: the F-150 doesn't have a SFA (Solid Front Axle). This is why the NHTSA link I posted earlier explicitly notes the F-250 and F-350. You'd probably have figured that out already if you weren't so hot-to-trot on attempting to counter everything I post

For 2018 Per these figures FCA sold:
- Jeep Wrangler: 240,032

Weird.... those numbers look surprisingly similar, don't they?

Now, it's difficult to find broken-out sales for just the Super Duty, but this site has put together estimates for 2014, 15, 16 and 17:
2017 Super Duty: 304,900
2016 Super Duty: 246,240
2015 Super Duty: 265,320
2014 Super Duty: 252,909
Total (including 2018): 1,333,757
Average per year: 266,751

Wrangler sales for the same years:
2017 Wrangler: 190.522
2016 Wrangler: 191.788
2015 Wrangler: 202.702
2014 Wrangler: 175.328
Total (including 2018): 1,000,372
Average per year: 200,074

So:
- We know that the Super Duty outsells the Wranger by ~33% on average
- The NHTSA figure for the Wrangler of 600 complaints over 17 years yields roughly 35 complaints a year
- The NHTSA figure for the Super Duty of 1,265 complaints over 14 years yields roughly 90 complaints a year
- Thusly, on average, using our above figures to determine percentage of occurrence over vehicles sold:
- Wrangler: 0.02%
- Super Duty: 0.03%

So yet again, I'll simply maintain my position that they are "just as prone"

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

So:
- We know that the Super Duty outsells the Wranger by ~33% on average
- The NHTSA figure for the Wrangler of 600 complaints over 17 years yields roughly 35 complaints a year
- The NHTSA figure for the Super Duty of 1,265 complaints over 14 years yields roughly 90 complaints a year
- Thusly, on average, using our above figures to determine percentage of occurrence over vehicles sold:
- Wrangler: 0.02%
- Super Duty: 0.03%

So yet again, I'll simply maintain my position that they are "just as prone"

Or slightly more prone....

I guess it depends.

 

[PowerSurge]

I'm not going to quote Overkill's post so I can keep this post short, but he can't extrapolate those figures off of "estimates". There are no accurate figures available online (that I know of) showing what percentages are 4x4 and 4x2. The only place you could get those figures is from Ford. Not to mention, even Jeeps were available in 2-wheel drive. All we have are guesstimates from online sources.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
I'm not going to quote Overkill's post so I can keep this post short, but he can't extrapolate those figures off of "estimates". There are no accurate figures available online (that I know of) showing what percentages are 4x4 and 4x2. The only place you could get those figures is from Ford. Not to mention, even Jeeps were available in 2-wheel drive. All we have are guesstimates from online sources.


The numbers I've provided, which were indeed estimates, are based off assuming that all trucks sold are susceptible. If we consider a generous percentage are 2WD, that makes the figures for the Super Duty worse, not better, as the number of complaints remains static and would then be spread across a lower average.

Working within the confines of the numbers we DO have, contrary to your earlier assertion that conflated the entire F-series with the Super Duty and the unnecessary and tasteless comments that accompanied it, the data supports what I've stated, which is simply that SFA trucks are just as prone to it as the Wrangler.