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Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? #5330330 01/23/20 01:45 PM
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SubieRubyRoo Offline OP
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Havoline ProDS synthetic, thanks to the 6Qt easy-change box being on sale at WM for $12.97 sometime last week. 0W20 and 5W30 have d1G2 certs, 5W20 does not. PDS obviously won't tell much, only real differences I see are VI is lower on the 5W20, and pour point doesn't go as low as 0W20. I know lower pour points usually mean either some PAO or more PPDs in the mix, but I'm still curious why two of the grades would meet dexos and the 5W20 does not. Higher VI usually means more VII, so I'm not too concerned about a lower VI as much (as Noack is lower as well on the 5W20).

It's just a confusing conundrum. And no, none of my vehicles "require" dexos, but like I mentioned in another thread, I do understand that the cert at least gives some guarantees that the oil has actually been tested for meeting a certification rather than just the plain API self-cert method until proven guilty.

So I guess the main question is, we are looking at what should be 3 very similar add-pack oils, in 3 very closely related grades, and only two meet dexos. What would likely be the main additive to make it meet the cert, or is it more likely that since 0W20 and 5W20 are essentially interchangeable, they only paid for one of them to be certified? BEGIN! LOL

Havoline ProDS PDS


De omnibus dubitandum.
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5330336 01/23/20 02:02 PM
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JohnnyJohnson Offline
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5W-20 not their most popular offing maybe the just opted not to pay for the Government Motors certification fee.

Last edited by JohnnyJohnson; 01/23/20 02:23 PM.

2004 Corolla 138781
Out: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 10-29-19 136457
In: Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W-20 ST 4386
2006 Duramax 77060
Out: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73909
In: Rotella Dino PH9100 11-3-19
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5330379 01/23/20 02:49 PM
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JLTD Offline
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popcorn


Lates.
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5330382 01/23/20 02:51 PM
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tenderloin Offline
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No GM vehicles..but if GM uses 0W20 and not 5W20 then no need for 5W20 cert

Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: tenderloin] #5330386 01/23/20 02:56 PM
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cb_13 Offline
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Originally Posted by tenderloin
No GM vehicles..but if GM uses 0W20 and not 5W20 then no need for 5W20 cert

Agreed. I can not recall seeing a GM vehicle that requires 5w20. I think they moved from 5w30 dexos to 0w20 dexos and never used 5w20.

Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5330501 01/23/20 05:00 PM
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dogememe Offline
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Several other brands have the same thing... Off the top of my head while I'm not sure if it's still like that but Castrol Edge 5w-20 was not Dexos certified and the 0w-20 said something like "appropriate for use in GM vehicles requiring 5w-20"

Last edited by dogememe; 01/23/20 05:00 PM.

2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~102K Miles: Castrol Magnatec 5W-20, Wix Filter.
2001 Chevy Suburban 5.3 ~290K Miles: Valvoline Maxlife 10W-30, ACDelco Filter.
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: dogememe] #5330528 01/23/20 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dogememe
Several other brands have the same thing... Off the top of my head while I'm not sure if it's still like that but Castrol Edge 5w-20 was not Dexos certified and the 0w-20 said something like "appropriate for use in GM vehicles requiring 5w-20"


+1


07 3.5L VQ35DE NAPA FS 5w-20 ProSelect 21358 156KM
10 3.5L 2GR-FE NAPA FS 5w-20 ProSelect 27047 176KM
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: cb_13] #5330615 01/23/20 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cb_13
Originally Posted by tenderloin
No GM vehicles..but if GM uses 0W20 and not 5W20 then no need for 5W20 cert

Agreed. I can not recall seeing a GM vehicle that requires 5w20. I think they moved from 5w30 dexos to 0w20 dexos and never used 5w20.

There's only one GM I can think of that takes 5W20. That would be the 2.5 Ecotec. Put in some 2013-15 Malibu's and 13-14 ATS.


2017 Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T - 2015 Honda CRV 2.4 - 2012 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 - 2007 Chevy Trailblazer 4.2 - 2003 Ford Taurus 3.0 Vulcan
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: dogememe] #5330677 01/23/20 08:35 PM
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CR94 Offline
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Originally Posted by dogememe
Several other brands have the same thing... Off the top of my head while I'm not sure if it's still like that but Castrol Edge 5w-20 was not Dexos certified and the 0w-20 said something like "appropriate for use in GM vehicles requiring 5w-20"
Yes, and some brands, and at least one line of Castrol, used to do that, but subsequently added the Dexos approval to 5W-20. Blenders have to decide whether showing Dexos approval buys them enough increased sales (including to owners of non-GM vehicles who feel reassured by it) to justify the fee---all assuming the 5W-20 in question is physically capable of meeting the requirements.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 109K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5330691 01/23/20 08:48 PM
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If they are not willing to pay for the certs, makes you wonder what else are they "not paying for"

Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5331032 01/24/20 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL
If they are not willing to pay for the certs, makes you wonder what else are they "not paying for"


When the Dexos concept was relatively new, Valvoline oils passed the testing and went through the certification process, but felt the increased cost of Dexos licensing provided no value added to the customer. I tend to agree with them. I have no problem paying for certification and testing, but having to pay licensing fees to an auto manufacturer for oil the blender developed in house without proprietary ingrediants strikes me as extortion. Just my opinion.

Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5331160 01/24/20 02:52 PM
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Chevron seems to take a pragmatic and innovative (if simple) approach to marketing and packaging.

They offer high quality products in novel packaging systems and minimized marketing budgets to compete on price. Very few GM vehicles use a 5w20. Why license it? I’ll be the add pack is Same-same as the 5w30 and 0w20 options, and that the base oils are of similar quality as the dexos grades.

You’ll note it carries the Chrysler and Ford B1 certs.

Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: BLND1] #5331672 01/25/20 08:46 AM
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Vern_in_IL Offline
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Originally Posted by BLND1
Chevron seems to take a pragmatic and innovative (if simple) approach to marketing and packaging.

They offer high quality products in novel packaging systems and minimized marketing budgets to compete on price. Very few GM vehicles use a 5w20. Why license it? I’ll be the add pack is Same-same as the 5w30 and 0w20 options, and that the base oils are of similar quality as the dexos grades.

You’ll note it carries the Chrysler and Ford B1 certs.


So if Dexos is an obsolete cert(because oils are so good) what is the newest and greatest certification that must be met(to ensure the best of the best?)

Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5331714 01/25/20 09:48 AM
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PimTac Offline
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I wonder what the cost is for a dexos certification?

As I see it, Chevron is a cost conscious company.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this? [Re: PimTac] #5333283 01/26/20 10:55 PM
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Skippy722 Offline
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Originally Posted by PimTac
I wonder what the cost is for a dexos certification?

As I see it, Chevron is a cost conscious company.


I found this

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3708830/1


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
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