Weird Havoline question... dexos specialists what's up with this?

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Havoline ProDS synthetic, thanks to the 6Qt easy-change box being on sale at WM for $12.97 sometime last week. 0W20 and 5W30 have d1G2 certs, 5W20 does not. PDS obviously won't tell much, only real differences I see are VI is lower on the 5W20, and pour point doesn't go as low as 0W20. I know lower pour points usually mean either some PAO or more PPDs in the mix, but I'm still curious why two of the grades would meet dexos and the 5W20 does not. Higher VI usually means more VII, so I'm not too concerned about a lower VI as much (as Noack is lower as well on the 5W20). It's just a confusing conundrum. And no, none of my vehicles "require" dexos, but like I mentioned in another thread, I do understand that the cert at least gives some guarantees that the oil has actually been tested for meeting a certification rather than just the plain API self-cert method until proven guilty. So I guess the main question is, we are looking at what should be 3 very similar add-pack oils, in 3 very closely related grades, and only two meet dexos. What would likely be the main additive to make it meet the cert, or is it more likely that since 0W20 and 5W20 are essentially interchangeable, they only paid for one of them to be certified? BEGIN! LOL Havoline ProDS PDS
 
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Originally Posted by tenderloin
No GM vehicles..but if GM uses 0W20 and not 5W20 then no need for 5W20 cert
Agreed. I can not recall seeing a GM vehicle that requires 5w20. I think they moved from 5w30 dexos to 0w20 dexos and never used 5w20.
 
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Several other brands have the same thing... Off the top of my head while I'm not sure if it's still like that but Castrol Edge 5w-20 was not Dexos certified and the 0w-20 said something like "appropriate for use in GM vehicles requiring 5w-20"
 
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Originally Posted by dogememe
Several other brands have the same thing... Off the top of my head while I'm not sure if it's still like that but Castrol Edge 5w-20 was not Dexos certified and the 0w-20 said something like "appropriate for use in GM vehicles requiring 5w-20"
+1
 
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Originally Posted by cb_13
Originally Posted by tenderloin
No GM vehicles..but if GM uses 0W20 and not 5W20 then no need for 5W20 cert
Agreed. I can not recall seeing a GM vehicle that requires 5w20. I think they moved from 5w30 dexos to 0w20 dexos and never used 5w20.
There's only one GM I can think of that takes 5W20. That would be the 2.5 Ecotec. Put in some 2013-15 Malibu's and 13-14 ATS.
 
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Originally Posted by dogememe
Several other brands have the same thing... Off the top of my head while I'm not sure if it's still like that but Castrol Edge 5w-20 was not Dexos certified and the 0w-20 said something like "appropriate for use in GM vehicles requiring 5w-20"
Yes, and some brands, and at least one line of Castrol, used to do that, but subsequently added the Dexos approval to 5W-20. Blenders have to decide whether showing Dexos approval buys them enough increased sales (including to owners of non-GM vehicles who feel reassured by it) to justify the fee---all assuming the 5W-20 in question is physically capable of meeting the requirements.
 
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Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL
If they are not willing to pay for the certs, makes you wonder what else are they "not paying for"
When the Dexos concept was relatively new, Valvoline oils passed the testing and went through the certification process, but felt the increased cost of Dexos licensing provided no value added to the customer. I tend to agree with them. I have no problem paying for certification and testing, but having to pay licensing fees to an auto manufacturer for oil the blender developed in house without proprietary ingrediants strikes me as extortion. Just my opinion.
 
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Chevron seems to take a pragmatic and innovative (if simple) approach to marketing and packaging. They offer high quality products in novel packaging systems and minimized marketing budgets to compete on price. Very few GM vehicles use a 5w20. Why license it? I'll be the add pack is Same-same as the 5w30 and 0w20 options, and that the base oils are of similar quality as the dexos grades. You'll note it carries the Chrysler and Ford B1 certs.
 
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Originally Posted by BLND1
Chevron seems to take a pragmatic and innovative (if simple) approach to marketing and packaging. They offer high quality products in novel packaging systems and minimized marketing budgets to compete on price. Very few GM vehicles use a 5w20. Why license it? I'll be the add pack is Same-same as the 5w30 and 0w20 options, and that the base oils are of similar quality as the dexos grades. You'll note it carries the Chrysler and Ford B1 certs.
So if Dexos is an obsolete cert(because oils are so good) what is the newest and greatest certification that must be met(to ensure the best of the best?)
 
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I wonder what the cost is for a dexos certification? As I see it, Chevron is a cost conscious company.
 
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I did my thoughts on this oil and got slammed. In short it didn't meet my tests. Fuel mileage went down on the Caravan and in hot summer days the 2 mowers turned black quick as well as oil disappeared with no smoke. On the Kia it dropped like a rock. I wound up changing in Caravan at 3k and low and behold mileage is back. I went back to Valvoline Daily 5w20 Synthetic Blend which even at 2k is quiet and nice to be at 20 mpg average from the 17 with Havoline 5w20.
 
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Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL
Originally Posted by BLND1
Chevron seems to take a pragmatic and innovative (if simple) approach to marketing and packaging. They offer high quality products in novel packaging systems and minimized marketing budgets to compete on price. Very few GM vehicles use a 5w20. Why license it? I'll be the add pack is Same-same as the 5w30 and 0w20 options, and that the base oils are of similar quality as the dexos grades. You'll note it carries the Chrysler and Ford B1 certs.
So if Dexos is an obsolete cert(because oils are so good) what is the newest and greatest certification that must be met(to ensure the best of the best?)
What? Where did you get that from what I said? It's purely pragmatic. Why pay for a certification for a grade (5w20) that isn't called for by the manufacturer that REQUIRES the certification? I simply said that given chevrons apparent strategy to minimize marketing costs, it makes sense to NOT pay the license fee on 5w20 even if it meets the specs for the cert. Why would you buy a gym membership (and continue to pay every month) if you knew that you were going to go to a different gym?
 
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It's product overlap and purely the economics of things. Pre 0w a 5w20 might have carried a D1G2 cert. Now, any engine that calls for a 5w20 can use a 0w20, there's no or very little ROI for a D1G2 cert on a 5w20.
 
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