Car Shopping- Need advice

[supton]

Originally Posted by dave1251
The Caravan got to 170K miles buy another. For some reason a few members here feel entitled to a transmission which lasts 250-300K miles or more. The truth is transmissions fail and the engineered lifetime is not near that mileage. All the ATF changes don't guarantee anything they may help you as the owner kick the can but transmissions fail.

Didn't know I felt "entitled" about something that can costs thousands of dollars yet last less than 10 years.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by dave1251
The Caravan got to 170K miles buy another. For some reason a few members here feel entitled to a transmission which lasts 250-300K miles or more. The truth is transmissions fail and the engineered lifetime is not near that mileage. All the ATF changes don't guarantee anything they may help you as the owner kick the can but transmissions fail.

Didn't know I felt "entitled" about something that can costs thousands of dollars yet last less than 10 years.


+1

Doesn't make much sense. Any transmission should make 250k easy if properly maintained, same with engines. Anything else is the result of a design flaw or abuse.

 

[DeafBrad]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by dave1251
The Caravan got to 170K miles buy another. For some reason a few members here feel entitled to a transmission which lasts 250-300K miles or more. The truth is transmissions fail and the engineered lifetime is not near that mileage. All the ATF changes don't guarantee anything they may help you as the owner kick the can but transmissions fail.

Didn't know I felt "entitled" about something that can costs thousands of dollars yet last less than 10 years.


+1

Doesn't make much sense. Any transmission should make 250k easy if properly maintained, same with engines. Anything else is the result of a design flaw or abuse.


The Caravans are nice... and I "get" the love people have for them. But I think they are built to a certain price point. The first owner will likely not notice or have problems, but the second and third owner will/may. My 2006 Grand Caravan was like this. LIttle things were breaking, and finally the transmission started to go bad. I do agree with post above about transmissions failing and the engineered lifetime comment. All automatics have a finite life (clutch packs wear, etc) however I think they can be built to last longer without too much trouble or expense.

 

[DeafBrad]

Originally Posted by pandus13
Originally Posted by DeafBrad
Originally Posted by JC1
To the OP, how much towing do you do per year with the Vans?

I'm not sure if the Sedona would be good for towing. What about a newer Caravan with a heavy duty Tranny cooler installed?


The towing I do is pretty insignificant. I haul the trash to the dump... not a lot of weight and maybe 20 miles 1 time every 1.5 months.


May I suggest buying a box of donuts and some coffees and go one morning and chat a transmission shop in your area???
Like that you will get experience related to your local driving conditions...

Hope it helps


Excellent comment regarding taking donuts to the local transmission place!

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by DeafBrad
I do agree with post above about transmissions failing and the engineered lifetime comment. All automatics have a finite life (clutch packs wear, etc) however I think they can be built to last longer without too much trouble or expense.

I get that, but I drive over 30k/year. Telling me that 150k is all I should expect tells me that I should shop elsewhere... but for all vehicles? none can be expected to go more than 150k w/o a trans? Maybe not as a certainty but to basically say it's simply required bugs me. Makes me think I shouldn't buy used, or only buy used with heavy depreciation and cheap aftermarket parts.

 

[sloinker]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by DeafBrad
I do agree with post above about transmissions failing and the engineered lifetime comment. All automatics have a finite life (clutch packs wear, etc) however I think they can be built to last longer without too much trouble or expense.

I get that, but I drive over 30k/year. Telling me that 150k is all I should expect tells me that I should shop elsewhere... but for all vehicles? none can be expected to go more than 150k w/o a trans? Maybe not as a certainty but to basically say it's simply required bugs me. Makes me think I shouldn't buy used, or only buy used with heavy depreciation and cheap aftermarket parts.



When Volkswagen got sued by the American government over its emission cheating. Many industry experts were called in for testimony regarding a definition of a vehicles life in regard to what manufacturers felt was their design goals. These opinions represented all makes of vehicles from a diverse set of experts. the consensus the judge ruled on was that 150K miles was an automobiles life expectancy as far as manufacturers are concerned. So im guessing the engineers and bean counters design toward that goal. The testimony and all relevant documents were available online following the settlement and make for some interesting reading.
Your contention that any automatic transmission should last far beyond 150k miles is wrong. The fact that some designs do and some maintenance patterns and driving habits/patterns/climate enhance longevity is also a consideration.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by dave1251
The Caravan got to 170K miles buy another. For some reason a few members here feel entitled to a transmission which lasts 250-300K miles or more. The truth is transmissions fail and the engineered lifetime is not near that mileage. All the ATF changes don't guarantee anything they may help you as the owner kick the can but transmissions fail.

Didn't know I felt "entitled" about something that can costs thousands of dollars yet last less than 10 years.


+1

Doesn't make much sense. Any transmission should make 250k easy if properly maintained, same with engines. Anything else is the result of a design flaw or abuse.

Who established 250k to be the "standard?"

 

[GMFan]

2009 or new Toyota Sienna

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Sienna/

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by sloinker
When Volkswagen got sued by the American government over its emission cheating. Many industry experts were called in for testimony regarding a definition of a vehicles life in regard to what manufacturers felt was their design goals. These opinions represented all makes of vehicles from a diverse set of experts. the consensus the judge ruled on was that 150K miles was an automobiles life expectancy as far as manufacturers are concerned. So im guessing the engineers and bean counters design toward that goal. The testimony and all relevant documents were available online following the settlement and make for some interesting reading.

I've heard that contention before, and believe it (based on anecdotal data).

Quote

Your contention that any automatic transmission should last far beyond 150k miles is wrong. The fact that some designs do and some maintenance patterns and driving habits/patterns/climate enhance longevity is also a consideration.

I don't understand. You tell me that I'm wrong then tell me there are other considerations.

According to you I have 3 bad transmissions in my yard...

If you are correct then I should be shopping on the basis of transmission cost. I believe the cheapest R&R would be what, a grand for a rebuild and a grand to install? Give or take? For old school 4AT's that is. Going up from there to anything modern. So used car shopping would be a balancing point between what is left in the transmission, the price to exchange, and then what I could expect going forward.

A while ago I thought about trading into a used Caravan and just accepting that a transmission replacement would be expected. People thought I was stupid for going down that path.

 

[GZRider]

I was wondering that myself, 250k miles on the original transmission might be a reasonable goal for a Honda or Toyota econobox that's being hypermiled or one of the Lexus luxury boats like the LS being highway driven by the proverbial little old lady but I really can't think of a factory slush-box be it torque converted, CVT, SMG, DCT ect from any manufacturer that can take 250,000 miles of occasional track duty, hot street launches and or autocross abuse. Transmission life if the unit isn't fundamentally flawed from the factory is more a function of maintenance habits and driving style

 

[DeafBrad]

Hi Everyone, original poster here... thanks for weighing in with your advice. After considering different makes and models I finally went back to driving a Caravan. It is a 2006 SE without all the fancy electronic stuff. I am glad for that was repairing electrical is not my strong suit.