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New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change #5246737 10/22/19 06:50 AM
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thooks Offline OP
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Before we even get started, I'm fully aware of how good modern oils are, how great modern engines are, and all the manufacturer's recommendations for oil change intervals and how none of them put anything in writing about dumping the factory fill before the recommended maintenance interval.

I've got a new 2019 Highlander, just hit 1,000 miles. It's 6-1/2 weeks old, got it with 3 miles on it, nobody but us has sat in it or driven it. It's had an early life of mostly 5-15 mile trips at 35-65 MPH on "country" 2-lane roads (highest speeds) and large suburban 4-lane roads (slowest speeds.... funny, huh?).

I'm not a worshipper of the 10k mile OCI, especially with Toyota and 0W20 oils. I've had Toyotas (5.7L V8s) for the last 5 years, one from new, well it had 2500 miles on it and the other bought at 79,000 miles. Both use oil, the 2014 Tundra bought new will use ~1 quart per 4-5k miles, the Sequoia will use 2-3 quarts over 7k miles. I had outstanding UOA and service from my previous Hondas running 10-13k miles on Mobil 1 5W20, I just don't see it with the Toyotas.

The reason we bought new on the Highlander is I couldn't find a late model used specimen with evidence of an oil change before 10,000 miles. I feel that hardly anyone/s driving pattern meets Toyota's "normal" driving standard. Most people fall into Severe but the service departments choose not to advise people of this because of the TCO marketing scam that the manufacturers are running on today.

Ok, with all that gobly-gook said, who agrees with me to go ahead and drop the factory fill soon, then run to 4k miles for the 2nd oil change and then start doing 5-6k mile OCIs on this?

Thanks

Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246740 10/22/19 06:57 AM
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I would just do it. It’s your vehicle and your personal decision. The answers here will be 50/50in which way to go.

For the record, I also drop the factory fill at 1000 miles, then change again at the interval I consider.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246749 10/22/19 07:08 AM
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I don't see anything wrong with your plan. Some over care beats under care every time on a new car. Every car is driven at varying levels of service. After your first OCI I'd drive 5000 miles and get a UOA. If that comes in good you might consider 7500 next. 7500 has been my max number but then my Toyota is 80% plus severe service.

Last edited by JohnnyJohnson; 10/22/19 07:09 AM.

2004 Corolla 136950
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Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246751 10/22/19 07:08 AM
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I have taken to alternating between 5k and 10k OCI's on my two late model Toyota's, both used 0W20 until 100k or more more, neither seem to use oil over 10k OCI, certainly not when I short change it at 5k. IMO, adding one quart after 5k so as to go 10k... costs less than changing every 5k (when I have to buy 5 or more quarts plus a filter).

YMMV but I've not had a problem with running factory fill for the full initial duration. Granted, that's a limited sample size of about 4, with a fifth that I think we all can call a flier (a 2000 Saturn that burned oil--just like every other 1.9L Saturn).

I don't see a correlation between any early drain and not. IMO, and it's just that, an opinion, oil usage early on is from low tension rings (or too gentle driving, or just a lousy design, or just the random bad sample) while later oil consumption is from too long of an OCI with oil not quite up to snuff causing oil ring sticking. I've also not seen evidence that oil usage is actually bad, outside of the nuisance of having to add oil: some well known oil burner models seem to go to high miles without killing their catalytic convertors (while some cars need new cats despite not burning oil).


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 194k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 155k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 215k, his
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246754 10/22/19 07:10 AM
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I agree. Only I would never go beyond a 5K OCI.

From what I understand in your post, you are doing a bunch of short trips with your Highlander. If that is the case, I'd probably do 3k OCI.

My wife has a 7 mile trip to work and back and 5 mile trips to grocery store. Her car gets 3K OCI.


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
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Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #5246757 10/22/19 07:12 AM
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thooks Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
I don't see anything wrong with your plan. Some over care beats under care every time on a new car. Every car is driven at varying levels of service. After your first OCI I'd drive 5000 miles and get a UOA. If that comes in good you might consider 7500 next. 7500 has been my max number but then my Toyota is 80% plus severe service.


I'm trying to make 7500 miles my max also on my Tundra. It's a difficult decision to do more frequent oil changes, especially adding make up oil, with having to use 8 quarts of oil and it's not a quick/easy oil change on the Toyotas.

The Highlander has the same cartridge style filter, but no skid plate and 6 quarts versus 8.

My Tundra sees much more highway mileage/long trips at highway speeds but also a lot of stop-n-go or heavy traffic congestion so people can look at their phones while driving...


Yes, the Highlander will most likely see more short (15 miles or less) trips than not.

Last edited by thooks; 10/22/19 07:14 AM.
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246758 10/22/19 07:13 AM
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I have never purchased a new car but it seems like I have read in the owner's manual some guidelines for "breaking" a new car in. My newest car is 12 years old so I don't know if Toyota still has such recommendations or not.


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: Gebo] #5246759 10/22/19 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Gebo
I have never purchased a new car but it seems like I have read in the owner's manual some guidelines for "breaking" a new car in. My newest car is 12 years old so I don't know if Toyota still has such recommendations or not.


There are no break-in suggestions for new cars anymore. All that is dust in the wind with the Total Cost of Ownership rules in place. It's all about selling a vehicle that barely needs maintenance, but we want you to come back to the dealership for everything, including free wiper inspections.

Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246761 10/22/19 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by thooks
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
I don't see anything wrong with your plan. Some over care beats under care every time on a new car. Every car is driven at varying levels of service. After your first OCI I'd drive 5000 miles and get a UOA. If that comes in good you might consider 7500 next. 7500 has been my max number but then my Toyota is 80% plus severe service.


I'm trying to make 7500 miles my max also on my Tundra. It's a difficult decision to do more frequent oil changes, especially adding make up oil, with having to use 8 quarts of oil and it's not a quick/easy oil change on the Toyotas.

The Highlander has the same cartridge style filter, but no skid plate and 6 quarts versus 8.

My Tundra sees much more highway mileage/long trips at highway speeds but also a lot of stop-n-go or heavy traffic congestion so people can look at their phones while driving...



How many miles do you get on your Sequoia before you have to add? My brain is saying that it may work better for you if you go 5K and instead of adding more fresh oil just do a complete change. In other words, go as far as you can til you have to add and then do a complete oil change. Never add clean oil to the last 1-2K miles. Just thinking....


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246762 10/22/19 07:18 AM
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Change the oil as you have planned and try a 5W-30 in the other Toyotas if not doing so.

Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: Gebo] #5246777 10/22/19 07:40 AM
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thooks Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Gebo


How many miles do you get on your Sequoia before you have to add? My brain is saying that it may work better for you if you go 5K and instead of adding more fresh oil just do a complete change. In other words, go as far as you can til you have to add and then do a complete oil change. Never add clean oil to the last 1-2K miles. Just thinking....


It depends. Sometimes 2 quarts at or before 5k miles. Heavy highway use with hard throttle usage seems to be a culprit. I had not checked it in a long time last May, in the middle of a 550 mile trip to FL I stopped and checked it and added 2-1/2 quarts.

Yes, it is a tough decision to change early, knowing that I need to spend ~$60 on materials (with some oil leftover) and an hour, mainly on my back, versus adding oil at times when it is a waste.

Again, these Toyota 5.7L engines have an 8 qt sump. No, it's not leaking at the cam towers. There is some very minor seepage there. I do know two spark plug seals are leaking. I also changed the EGR valve about 14 months ago, I thought it improved the oil usage but that isn't the case.

Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246794 10/22/19 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by thooks
Before we even get started, I'm fully aware of how good modern oils are, how great modern engines are,..

Ok, with all that gobly-gook said, who agrees with me to go ahead and drop the factory fill soon, then run to 4k miles for the 2nd oil change and then start doing 5-6k mile OCIs on this?

Thanks
'

Modern engines may be "great" for specific power per displacement buy not on reliability.

You could blame close-coupled converters, under-square bore ratio, VVTi with 6-foot long or longer timing chains with poly guides and Leichtöl and - you might be right.

But the factory lube has some assembly anti score anti wear adds in it - most just from the assembly pre-lube - and really should be left in at least 2500 miles. That 500 or 1000 initial oil change is not a good thing on a modern filtered engine.

And since this is a 2 1/2 tonne beast when laden, I would not hesitate running a ACEA A3, B4 5w30 with VAG and MB and BMW approvals. Motul X-Max would be thee right start, but Fuchs or Pentosin or ELF would do fine.

ILSAC GF minimum standards oil don't even come in ankle-biting distance to the performance of the real synthetic high performance oils.

Since you will dump the next oil at 3000 - 4000 I would just run a Quaker state 5w30 green bottle for that run.

Good luck with your new car!


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#1 5885mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#7 52665mi-Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W20 + SOA Filter
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246801 10/22/19 07:56 AM
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Is 5K OCI early according to the Owner's Manual? Not being a smart aleck, I'm just asking. hide


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246817 10/22/19 08:09 AM
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Huie83 Offline
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I'd run 5-7.5K OCI's and not worry about it. It's odd that your Toyota's have used oil. The 06 Sienna I owned for a while ( 4 years and 40K miles) didn't use any during it's 7.5K OCI typically running Castrol Magnatec or Shell Truck and SUV. My girlfriend's 2015 Rav 4 also doesn't use any during it's 10K OCI. She gets whatever bulk oil the dealer uses, it calls for 0w-20 but who knows if that's what it gets.

Maybe try something besides Mobil products and see if you have better results.

Last edited by Huie83; 10/22/19 08:10 AM.
Re: New 2019 Toyota Highlander first oil change [Re: thooks] #5246823 10/22/19 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by thooks
Originally Posted by Gebo
I have never purchased a new car but it seems like I have read in the owner's manual some guidelines for "breaking" a new car in. My newest car is 12 years old so I don't know if Toyota still has such recommendations or not.
There are no break-in suggestions for new cars anymore. All that is dust in the wind with the Total Cost of Ownership rules in place. It's all about selling a vehicle that barely needs maintenance, but we want you to come back to the dealership for everything, including free wiper inspections.
There are break-in instructions in the 2019 Toyota Highlander Owner's Manual. This:
"■Breaking in your new Toyota
To extend the life of the vehicle, observing the following precautions is recommended:
●For the first 186 miles (300 km):
Avoid sudden stops.
●For the first 500 miles (800 km):
Do not tow a trailer.
●For the first 621 miles (1000 km):
• Do not drive at extremely high speeds.
• Avoid sudden acceleration.
• Do not drive continuously in low gears.
• Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods."


That is similar to new GM, Chrysler (FCA), Ford, VW, Toyota, etc. .... probably most of the other engine maker's instructions for break-in too.. We had a thread about it a while back.
There is some concern among engineers about hot spots forming if the engine is revved hard, mainly around the rings-cylinders. Some engines use a lot of moly for break-in, for example. That said, its usually OK, but the rounded ring faces need to evenly get polished down during new driving, twisting in their ringlands for wear on the machined surfaces.

I am in favor of changing the factory oil out at 500 to 1,000 miles.

If you want to do the Toyota 10,000 mile (1 year) thing, you could raise the performance of the oil itself to do it with more confidence. That is the approach VW takes with my '19 Tiguan, specifying a higher performance oil (VW 508, or Mercedes 229.71 similar) in a 0w-20 to make it the whole 10k miles easily. Those German spec oils are also SN rated in many cases (Castrol Edge Extended Performance gold bottle is SN Plus and Mercedes 229.71 rated, and a bargain at walmart), and being SN rated means Toyota technically is happy with that on warranty.


2019 VW Tiguan S 4Motion, Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20, VW Mann oil filter
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