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Stuck Rings #5237994 10/12/19 05:33 PM
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Mathew_Boss Offline OP
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What oil properties prevent stuck rings? Is it more detergents or a wear issues, antioxidants, something else?


125k Mile 11 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi PP HM or QSUD 5w20 or 0w20 w/Purolator Boss or Wix XP

40k Mile 2015 Dodge Charger 3.6L Pentastar Pennzoil Platinum or QSUD 0/5W20, or 5W30
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5237998 10/12/19 05:39 PM
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tig1 Offline
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In 41 years using M1 oils at 10K OCIs none of my engines have had coked rings. Oils that are highly prone to oxidize(thicken) are the ones most likely to form carbon and sludge. Also extending OCIs too far may oxidize.


2007 Ford Fusion 248,000 miles
M1 5-20HM
2017 Ford Fusion 79K
M1 0-20EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238021 10/12/19 06:40 PM
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danez_yoda Offline
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Most likely cleaning agents (calcium, boron) and good base stocks that resist heat induced hardening and varnish deposits. Synthetic oils (yes even group III) will make this very unlikely.
Modern conventional oil in SN and SN+ ratings are mildly synthetic anyway and should excel in this area as well.

Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238022 10/12/19 06:40 PM
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andyd Offline
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Keeping rings free from the get go is a function of the engine design, the OCI and the general level of the engine's up-keep. These days oil is good enough so that just about any oil within the specc'ed grade will deliver similar service as Tig1's preferred brand. The main thing with oil brand loyalty is you dont waste time comparison shopping grin2


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238025 10/12/19 06:46 PM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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For starters both fuel and oil can form coke. Coke is formed from extended exposure to high heat, typically +200c. For example, if you were to shut your engine down after an extended run there's a chance that residual oil in the combustion chamber would not survive the cool down and form coke. Leaky injectors seeping fuel into the combustion chamber after shutdown can also form coke. Having said that oils that exhibit high thermal stability better resist coking.
Low-alloy iron and copper can also stimulate coke
formation by catalysis.

Once formed carbonaceous deposits can be very tenacious and there's very little in the way of cleaning that an oil alone can do to remove carbon deposits (sludge, gum and varnish are not coke). It typically requires some form of solvent to loosen so it can either be swept away and filtered or exhausted. But you have to be careful because if a big chunk of carbon breaks free it can get stuck between the rings and cylinder wall or at the valve/valve seat. A large enough piece in the oil could even block an oil passageway.


Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 10/12/19 06:57 PM.
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238036 10/12/19 07:14 PM
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burla Offline
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I just posted a thread in fuel additive section the results of Redline sI-1 with before and after boroscoped. As for oil, I'm not sure that any oil will prevent it even high detergency ones. There constantly is a introduction of a dirty burning product, the best option is to run a detergent with that source, in my unprofesional opinion.

Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238047 10/12/19 07:26 PM
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Mathew_Boss Offline OP
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Thanks for all the great info. We just got our first Toyota 2 days ago. 2019 Highlander 3.5L V6. I looked at the jasper site to see what they have fixed and stuck rings seems to be about the only advertised change.

I found Castrol is advertising insane anti wear claims. I uploaded Valvoline to compare their claims. This engine is port AND direct injected. I was thinking about running Castrol EP in it but didnt know much about stick rings

Screenshot_20191012-172600_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20191012-172438_Chrome.jpg

125k Mile 11 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi PP HM or QSUD 5w20 or 0w20 w/Purolator Boss or Wix XP

40k Mile 2015 Dodge Charger 3.6L Pentastar Pennzoil Platinum or QSUD 0/5W20, or 5W30
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: andyd] #5238050 10/12/19 07:27 PM
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Cujet Online Content
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Originally Posted by andyd
Keeping rings free from the get go is a function of the engine design, the OCI and the general level of the engine's up-keep. These days oil is good enough so that just about any oil within the specc'ed grade will deliver similar service as Tig1's preferred brand. The main thing with oil brand loyalty is you dont waste time comparison shopping grin2


That is simply not correct. Examples abound, and even a favored brand (Toyota) has serious issues with stuck rings. It's not just neglect anymore. It's that low tension piston rings get stuck more easily.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238053 10/12/19 07:29 PM
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wiswind Offline
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I'm no expert.
My opinion is that using the called for oil (a qood quality oil that meets the vehicles specifications as set forth by the manufacturer)., a reasonable oil change interval, will protect your vehicle's engine.......until the rest of the vehicle falls apart around it.
As long as the systems are functioning as they should, you should be fine.
Modern vehicles run MUCH cleaner vs the older ones with carborators and chokes that could mess up easily.
The sensor/computer controlled engines (when functioning properly) have much less fuel dilution, running rich, too lean.....etc vs years past.
For this reason, the only reason you could expect your oil rings to stick.....and fail is if something went wrong......or some design flaw in the particular vehicle.
Of course, after saying all this stuff......it DOES come down to doing the routine maintenance stuff in a timely manor, using good quality parts and fluids.

Re: Stuck Rings [Re: tig1] #5238061 10/12/19 07:36 PM
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CR94 Offline
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Originally Posted by tig1
In 41 years using M1 oils at 10K OCIs none of my engines have had coked rings. ...
Perhaps you should give Ford at least as much credit as Mobil1. I don't hear of modern Fords with this problem as often as certain other brands. (Which is not to say someone won't cite exceptions ...)


2011 Toyota Prius now at 104K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238069 10/12/19 07:44 PM
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A lot depends on the owner/driver. If your driving routine is full of short trips then you might be part of the problem. Engines today run at low rpm. Take that Highlander out and give it a good run on a regular basis. Maintenance is another part of the puzzle.

I could envision a person who waits to change their oil or keeps forgetting about it and at the same time running a lot of short trips. Rings will coke up over time and like the boiled frog analogy you won’t know there is a problem until it’s too late.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238116 10/12/19 08:59 PM
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The TEOST MHT-4 test is part of the certification testing for API or ILSAC, and it's about piston ring cleanliness. I've posted on the board recently links to data sheets from a company that actually publishes their MHT-4 test results. From that company, 0W20 leaves 3x as much deposit on the MHT-4 test as the 5W20 grade from the exact same line of oil. Does that mean a person shouldn't run 0W20? Not necessarily, but I seriously doubt that the comparison is unique to that company. They're a very old, well-respected company that makes high quality fluids.


I use speech recognition frequently. Please excuse any consequent grammatical or typographical errors.
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Cujet] #5238130 10/12/19 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by andyd
Keeping rings free from the get go is a function of the engine design, the OCI and the general level of the engine's up-keep. These days oil is good enough so that just about any oil within the specc'ed grade will deliver similar service as Tig1's preferred brand. The main thing with oil brand loyalty is you dont waste time comparison shopping grin2


That is simply not correct. Examples abound, and even a favored brand (Toyota) has serious issues with stuck rings. It's not just neglect anymore. It's that low tension piston rings get stuck more easily.

I tend to agree, oil consumption, stuck rings, seems to be an issue right now and going forward with these low tension ring/direct injected vehicles. Have a friend who owns a German auto repair facility - he says the oil consumption and buildup of soot on the piston rings on engines he's tearing down are ridiculous...stuff he wouldn't normally see on engines that are lower in mileage. He thinks the high pressure injector is causing fuel to mix and burn with the oil on the walls and the result is carbon buildup on the rings. I don't know, but something seems to be going on...I've owned two direct injection vehicles now...they both have burned oil, the higher mileage one got worse and worse as it went.

Re: Stuck Rings [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5238139 10/12/19 09:37 PM
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andyd Offline
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Cujet did you miss this in my statement.?... is a function of the engine design... The tensile strength of a ring would qualify as an engine design issue. grin2


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Stuck Rings [Re: bulwnkl] #5238188 10/12/19 11:44 PM
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CR94 Offline
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Originally Posted by bulwnkl
The TEOST MHT-4 test is part of the certification testing for API or ILSAC, and it's about piston ring cleanliness. I've posted on the board recently links to data sheets from a company that actually publishes their MHT-4 test results. From that company, 0W20 leaves 3x as much deposit on the MHT-4 test as the 5W20 grade from the exact same line of oil. ...
As I understand, 0W-20 is exempted from that test that most thicker grades must pass. I'm not sure about 0W-16 or 0W-30.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 104K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
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