What is most popular oil brand in Europe?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
It varies greatly by country...

It does, but overall, these are most common. Of course, in Spain Repsol is far more common than Sellenia or OMV.

 

[Bailes1992]

In Britan the most easily available oils are generally Castrol. Castrol oils can be picked in most supermarkets and supermerket fuel stations.

 

[Popsy]

Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
It varies greatly by country...


For many people in NA, Europe is an old, vague foreign country far away. Also many think Europe = Germany...since many German products are pushed in NA, with for some reasons (true or not) the idea of quality behind. Well at least the image of German made products is very positive.

But I can't blame them, many countries in Europe, with each their own cultures and stuff.

For Brittany I'd say Total, Shell, Castrol and Motul, then distributor brands (Carrefour, Leclerc), than smaller local brands like Igol, Yacco, who try to be competitive for small shops.
Never seen Liqui-Moly, but then again most supermarkets only have Total, Shell and their own brand.

Castrol mostly for gear oils, along with Fuchs (which must offer good pricing cause is seen in "discount" style shops), but also as a high end expensive offering in some supermarkets.

 

[Lowflyer]

Originally Posted by Popsy
For many people in NA, Europe is an old, vague foreign country far away. Also many think Europe = Germany...
In a car forum? Not even have heard of it, than cowboys dont know Italy, Britain, France or Spain.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by Zolton
I have heard Ravenol is most popular.


Not by a long shot, it is considered a mid grade product and certainly not one you would pay a premium for.

Originally Posted by simple_gifts
There was never a lawsuit It was a complaint filed with a BBB type agency.


In Germany there was an actual legal lawsuit not a consumer complaint. It is still in effect today.
Selling conventional oils hydrocracked or otherwise as a true synthetic is considered consumer fraud and possible tax evasion as refiners are taxed on the type of basestocks used so the labeling laws are strict, Mobil admitted as much in a company pdf that has been posted many times here in the past.

Shell shot themselves in the rear end big time trying to circumvent the law with a true synthetic GTL which was the original synthetic formula claiming it was a grp III+ and wanting to label it as full synthetic. Once the camel got his nose under that tent all grp III could be labeled full synthetic. That flew like lead balloon and they lost along with the higher profits they calculated.

GTL is full synthetic using the Fischer-Tropsch process which was the original full synthetic process and a grp IV, getting it classed as a grp III would lower their tax burden and being labeled a full synthetic would bring a premium retail price.
Most of Castrol Edge offerings in Germany are full synthetic and carry a premium price but at least you know what you are getting and what you are paying for, if its better than grp III today is debatable unlike years ago when there was no question the full synthetic was better at controlling wear and deposits by a wide margin.

 

[Lowflyer]

Originally Posted by Trav
Not by a long shot, it is considered a mid grade product and certainly not one you would pay a premium for.
First NO.

Quote
Most of Castrol Edge offerings in Germany are full synthetic
Second NO.

The reaminder are a correct viewpoints.

 

[Popsy]

Originally Posted by Lowflyer
Originally Posted by Popsy
For many people in NA, Europe is an old, vague foreign country far away. Also many think Europe = Germany...
In a car forum? Not even have heard of it, than cowboys dont know Italy, Britain, France or Spain.

Funny, many posts here made me think just about that.
But the many meant generalization, not everybody, and also outside of the forum, like in real life.

 

[aleneros]

Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by Zolton
I have heard Ravenol is most popular.


Not by a long shot, it is considered a mid grade product and certainly not one you would pay a premium for.

Originally Posted by simple_gifts
There was never a lawsuit It was a complaint filed with a BBB type agency.


In Germany there was an actual legal lawsuit not a consumer complaint. It is still in effect today.
Selling conventional oils hydrocracked or otherwise as a true synthetic is considered consumer fraud and possible tax evasion as refiners are taxed on the type of basestocks used so the labeling laws are strict, Mobil admitted as much in a company pdf that has been posted many times here in the past.

Shell shot themselves in the rear end big time trying to circumvent the law with a true synthetic GTL which was the original synthetic formula claiming it was a grp III+ and wanting to label it as full synthetic. Once the camel got his nose under that tent all grp III could be labeled full synthetic. That flew like lead balloon and they lost along with the higher profits they calculated.

GTL is full synthetic using the Fischer-Tropsch process which was the original full synthetic process and a grp IV, getting it classed as a grp III would lower their tax burden and being labeled a full synthetic would bring a premium retail price.
Most of Castrol Edge offerings in Germany are full synthetic and carry a premium price but at least you know what you are getting and what you are paying for, if its better than grp III today is debatable unlike years ago when there was no question the full synthetic was better at controlling wear and deposits by a wide margin.


Hi Trav,

Quick question:
So if an oil was labeling as " vollsynthetic" and made in Germany, how much % groupIV (PAO) it must contain ?

Would it be like 50% at least?

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by Lowflyer
Originally Posted by Trav
Not by a long shot, it is considered a mid grade product and certainly not one you would pay a premium for.
First NO.

Quote
Most of Castrol Edge offerings in Germany are full synthetic
Second NO.

The reaminder are a correct viewpoints.


Look again at the edge bottles before claiming its not correct. The A5/B5 is HC the rest are full synthetic. Click on the picture for each one and then view image.
You will see for yourself.

https://www.castrol.com/de_de/germa...castrol-edge.html#tab_turbo-diesel-5w-40

Ravenol is an upper mid tier product and no where near the most popular. They are making inroads but its going to take a long time and the competitors are not just going to side idle.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by aleneros

Hi Trav,

Quick question:
So if an oil was labeling as " vollsynthetic" and made in Germany, how much % groupIV (PAO) it must contain ?

Would it be like 50% at least?


I don't know 100% but IIRC its more than that. It could also be a group V or a mix of both plus the add pack.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Zolton
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by Zolton
I have heard Ravenol is most popular.

GTL is full synthetic using the Fischer-Tropsch process which was the original full synthetic process and a grp IV


Great post, but GTL is Gruppe V -"other"


It is officially classified as Group III.

 

[kschachn]

Yes it is Group III, a common misconception.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by aleneros
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by Zolton
I have heard Ravenol is most popular.


Not by a long shot, it is considered a mid grade product and certainly not one you would pay a premium for.

Originally Posted by simple_gifts
There was never a lawsuit It was a complaint filed with a BBB type agency.


In Germany there was an actual legal lawsuit not a consumer complaint. It is still in effect today.
Selling conventional oils hydrocracked or otherwise as a true synthetic is considered consumer fraud and possible tax evasion as refiners are taxed on the type of basestocks used so the labeling laws are strict, Mobil admitted as much in a company pdf that has been posted many times here in the past.

Shell shot themselves in the rear end big time trying to circumvent the law with a true synthetic GTL which was the original synthetic formula claiming it was a grp III+ and wanting to label it as full synthetic. Once the camel got his nose under that tent all grp III could be labeled full synthetic. That flew like lead balloon and they lost along with the higher profits they calculated.

GTL is full synthetic using the Fischer-Tropsch process which was the original full synthetic process and a grp IV, getting it classed as a grp III would lower their tax burden and being labeled a full synthetic would bring a premium retail price.
Most of Castrol Edge offerings in Germany are full synthetic and carry a premium price but at least you know what you are getting and what you are paying for, if its better than grp III today is debatable unlike years ago when there was no question the full synthetic was better at controlling wear and deposits by a wide margin.


Hi Trav,

Quick question:
So if an oil was labeling as " vollsynthetic" and made in Germany, how much % groupIV (PAO) it must contain ?

Would it be like 50% at least?

Made in Germany does not have anything to do with it. The question is: whether oil is sold in Germany.
So for example, Mobil1 5W30 ESP is made in France and Finland. In every country in Europe, except Germany, is sold as "Full Synthetic" oil. In Germany it is sold as SHC oil.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Zolton
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by Zolton
I have heard Ravenol is most popular.

GTL is full synthetic using the Fischer-Tropsch process which was the original full synthetic process and a grp IV


Great post, but GTL is Gruppe V -"other"

Group V is not "other." Group V are Esters.

 

[kschachn]

Actually the definition is as follows (API 1509, Appendix E):

Quote
Group V base stocks include all other base stocks not included in Group I, II, III, or IV.

In the example for GTL base stock it is Group III because:

Quote
Group III base stocks contain greater than or equal to 90 percent saturates and less than or equal to 0.03 percent sulfur and have a viscosity index greater than or equal to 120 using the test methods specified inTable E-1.

One of the reasons people get hung up on this because they think the group designations apply to the finished product when in fact it is intended for blenders:

Quote
The API Base Oil Interchangeability Guidelines (BOI) were developed to ensure that the performance of engine oil products is not adversely affected when different base oils are used interchangeably by engine oil blenders.

It is not, and is not intended as some sort of global quality marker for the finished oil:
Quote
Use of these Guidelines does not absolve the marketer of the responsibility for the actual performance of the licensed product sold in the aftermarket. The licensee must still ensure all of the engine and bench test results.

 

[Lowflyer]

Originally Posted by Trav
[Look again at the edge bottles before claiming its not correct. The A5/B5 is HC the rest are full synthetic. Click on the picture for each one and then view image.
You will see for yourself.

https://www.castrol.com/de_de/germa...castrol-edge.html#tab_turbo-diesel-5w-40
Edge bottles?

Are you kidding me? We have spectra analyses in .ru and .de oil-clubs.
You dont need read bottle stickers to be smart. LOL. Bottles, the source of trueness.

Quote
Ravenol is an upper mid tier product and no where near the most popular.
Ravenol is also often expensive. But what is "popular", again? Mid tier product, with 6.7% Noack? 75% of products, with PAO/Ester? What is "upper mid"?
From the sight of sold quantities Ravenol is not TT. Thats right.

==============================================
@aleneros
I mean the base oil mix (!) must be at least 80% group IV and V. For me this is very reasonable definition.
==============================================

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Is the Castrol most common oil in Europe?
Does it means it made different? Better?


They do have different standards so they will be different, Mobil 1 could not be classified as a full synthetic oil, but only as a synthetic technology oil.

Do you remember the lawsuit Castrol-Mobil?

That law is German law, hence only applies in Germany.


It's a EU law and it applies throughout Europe. The suit was brought up in a US court and deliberated by a short sighted judge.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Pelican
It's a EU law and it applies throughout Europe. The suit was brought up in a US court and deliberated by a short sighted judge.

Are you sure about that, can you cite the EU law? I have not seen similar labeling designations on oil sold in other EU countries.

There never was a suit in US court here.

 

[Bjornviken]

Its a German law

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Pelican

It's a EU law and it applies throughout Europe. The suit was brought up in a US court and deliberated by a short sighted judge.


incorrect, it was a BBB case in the US. In Europe, Germany requires that to be labelled synthetic, it has to PAO or Ester based, they are the only ones that do. That's why "Synthetic" oils in Jolly 'ol England can be Group-III based, same with France and numerous Motul products that are called Synthetic but sold as SHC in Germany.