Which 508.00 oil would you choose?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by TiGeo
The difference isn't the viscosity, it's the additive/blend difference between 502s and 504s. 504s are low-SAPS/long-service interval oils and 502s are full-SAPS oils. If you aren't pushing it and are happy that gas is low-SAPS (which I believe all gas in the U.S. is supposed to be now) shouldn't matter.



Quick question:

Would that be proper to use VW 502 00/505 00 (Full SAPS) if the OCI sticks with 10000 mile/year for an VW EA888 Gen3B petrol engine?

Or to use the VW 504 00/ 507 00 (low-SAPS/long-service interval oils) are able to provide better wear protection?
 
Originally Posted by aleneros
Originally Posted by TiGeo
The difference isn't the viscosity, it's the additive/blend difference between 502s and 504s. 504s are low-SAPS/long-service interval oils and 502s are full-SAPS oils. If you aren't pushing it and are happy that gas is low-SAPS (which I believe all gas in the U.S. is supposed to be now) shouldn't matter.



Quick question:

Would that be proper to use VW 502 00/505 00 (Full SAPS) if the OCI sticks with 10000 mile/year for an VW EA888 Gen3B petrol engine?

Or to use the VW 504 00/ 507 00 (low-SAPS/long-service interval oils) are able to provide better wear protection?


My last UOA with LM 5W40 VW502.00 at 7K had a TBD indicating that I had plenty of life left in the oil to go much longer. You'd have to do UOAs on both and see which is doing a better job at 10K. Most don't go the full 10K on these VW engines and using the 504 seems to be unnecessary. All of the 504s on VWs approved list come in 5W30 (with a few 0W30s). Maybe one of these changes I'll use it and see the difference.
 
Why no TBN? To me that's the telling number to do a comparison at roughly the same OCI to see if the 504 has a lot more life left than the 504s. To me, all of those nearly look the same except for the moly number and for that, the M1 502 and Penz 504 are similar.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by TiGeo
The difference isn't the viscosity, it's the additive/blend difference between 502s and 504s. 504s are low-SAPS/long-service interval oils and 502s are full-SAPS oils.
Well...
1. Not 504/507 with -40 visco. Practically, its also viscos

2. Somehow, SAPS is since few years not the same
laugh.gif
In early years of 504/507, I had seen no one approved oil with more than 0.6 in the datasheet (LowSAPS). Nowadays, I mean, its 502 and MidSAPS (0.82), and 504/507 with 0.74...

2 is somewhat confusing for me.
 
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Why no TBN? To me that's the telling number to do a comparison at roughly the same OCI to see if the 504 has a lot more life left than the 504s.


I am currently running the 504 oil M1 ESP 0W30 (and am currently at about 4200 miles) and if I remember I will do the TBN.
 
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Why no TBN? To me that's the telling number to do a comparison at roughly the same OCI to see if the 504 has a lot more life left than the 504s.


I am currently running the 504 oil M1 ESP 0W30 (and am currently at about 4200 miles) and if I remember I will do the TBN.


Cool! Just would be a more meaningful (to me at least) comparo between it and the 502 oils to see if it really is any different.
 
Originally Posted by TiGeo
The difference isn't the viscosity, it's the additive/blend difference between 502s and 504s. 504s are low-SAPS/long-service interval oils and 502s are full-SAPS oils. If you aren't pushing it and are happy that gas is low-SAPS (which I believe all gas in the U.S. is supposed to be now) shouldn't matter.

confused2.gif
 
Originally Posted by Vigg
Originally Posted by MParr
I happen to agree with you on the formulation was to meet CAFE standards. That is the only logical conclusion that I can come to. I really don't believe that using Mobil1 ESP is going to lead to catastrophic engine failure. I am going to post a link to the Mobil 1 UK link. It shows that Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 & M1 ESP 5W30 can be used for short drains. Whatever that means and Mobil 1 ESP 0W20 for extended drains.
https://www.mobil1.co.uk/which-synt...obil1&equipment_id=FawEcXL3l&p=2


Correct I don't think using the ESP would lead to an engine failure. Quite the opposite as I think it would be an excellent oil to run. There have been a few earlier build S4/S5/SQ5 that have had engines let go. Mine isn't an early build but I would hate for something to happen.

Interesting the UK site for Mobile and Shell say to use a 504 spec and 502 along with 508. I've tried to google Audi UK but cant for the life of me figure out where they list oil specs for models.

Originally Posted by KCJeep
I can see experimenting with the Motul but chasing after Liqui Moly is not likely worth doing IMO.

If you are seeing rapid TBN depletion maybe you are better off with the Castrol and having that quart top off to give it a nice shot in the arm through the OCI.

Not a fan of 0w20 in anything, but in a German engine it just seems silly. CAFE again for sure. Once out of warranty I'd be putting a good Euro oil in it for sure.

Very nice car by the way. The A4 was my favorite when recently car shopping.


I'll be honest I've never used Liqui Moly and personally think they are one of the "boutique" oils that cost a lot of money. Their oils seem to perform well but oils that are half the price seem to be just as good too. The main reason I threw it out there was just for the lack of options I have to choose from. If I still have this car when the warranty is up a good Euro oil will be going in for sure.

Also thanks for the kind words. Its actually my wife's car and she loves it. She had an S3 before and likes the bigger size of the S4 along with how nice it rides and how refined it looks inside. Its a type of car that does a lot of things very well.


Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi
Anyone make a suggestion as to why Boron levels are 9 in first test and 50 in second when same oil is used?


I've been told that Audi uses a bulk oil made by Castrol (Not the LL IV FE) for the factory fill, that's probably cheaper to manufacture but still meets the specs they require. I will admit that the Castrol LL IV FE add pack looks boring minus the Ti.

I see your in the UK. Can you confirm what oil spec Audi calls for over there for the S4/S5 models. Thanks!




Hi Vigg
I really wish I could be of more help to you. I tried contacting Audi UK but just hit a brick wall without specific vehicle details. Looking around the Audi forums would suggest the Castrol LL4 FE is the one to use. I could only find 3 VW508 oils available here. The Castrol, a Motul 508 specific oil and one from Millers Oils.
I did notice the Motul product shared its spec with Porsche C20 if that adds a string to your bow.
Sorry I cant help more.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Actual viscosity difference between 504 and 502 isn't very much.

Depends which VW502.00. Pentosin 5W40 KV100 is 13.9. Motul X-Cess I think is 14.2.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by spiderbypass
I like that all the 508.00 oils appear to be PAO based on their safety data sheets.
With 0W-30 you have no alternatives to master the job. That is therefore something that make me waht I dont like... for me all of it is for me to hairy what good job of weewee oils.
 
Originally Posted by dbias
My 17 Audi A4 with the 2.0 L specifies VW 502 / 504 on the under hood sticker. I generally use 502 oils.


The A4 2.0T has 2 different engines available. You didn't get the Ultra with 190 hp, which gets the Budack cycle engine which means 508.00 oil spec.
 
Originally Posted by Tikka

Hi Vigg
I really wish I could be of more help to you. I tried contacting Audi UK but just hit a brick wall without specific vehicle details. Looking around the Audi forums would suggest the Castrol LL4 FE is the one to use. I could only find 3 VW508 oils available here. The Castrol, a Motul 508 specific oil and one from Millers Oils.
I did notice the Motul product shared its spec with Porsche C20 if that adds a string to your bow.
Sorry I cant help more.


Appreciate you checking. I'm just looking for a little more info to see if the 508 spec is for the US and they use the 504 everywhere else.

I think I'm going with Motul
55.gif
 
It always amazes me how absolutely fussy VWs can be with their oils.

I still think most of the problems with the AEG in NA were because they pushed 5w30 and it was a sheer happy mess. The engines ran hot, and they would cook the oil rings. Didn't help they had cheapened the piston design so much the oil ring groove lacked drain holes, so you ended up with the oil turning into nasty sludge loaded with carbon.

The AEG was upgraded to include piston oil jet coolers and they changed the pistons...

I bet the Golf R gets specced for the heavier oil, because they expect it to be owned by people who will hammer on it more. They also aren't selling it for it's economy in any way shape or form.

Personally if the Audi gets the grocery getter treatment I wouldn't be surprised if the 0w20 holds up, but if you run it hard, high speed for longer periods and if you start 'upgrading' the 0w20 will likely break down.

It's like my parents Hyundai, it's interesting because if you put the 5w20 into it the oil on the highway gets really hot, think the sensor on a summer day records 120-130'C. Put 0w40 into it and the oil temps are down below 110'C and in 5th at 110kph, it will pull. Compared to the 20 weight, where it has almost no pick up or pull.

These modern variable cam timing and turbo engines base a lot off the oil temperature.
 
I changed the oil in my Tiguan this morning. I used Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. Do I have any regrets for not using a 508/509 specified oil? No. When 10,000 miles rolls around, I'll take it to the dealership for their complementary oil change with Castrol Professional LL IV 0W20.
 
https://www.lubricants.total.com/11072017-total-launches-new-total-quartz-ineo-long-life-0w-20-art
is cheap for a VW 508 oil, at https://www.rmeuropean.com/Products/206764-MFG759.aspx
Otherwise, M1 VW 508 0w20 is at Suncoast Porsche in Florida and they'll ship it to you from their website at suncoastparts.com
ECS Tuning has the "original 508" Castrol developed with VW a few years ago.

PAO % in 508 oils: Its all over the place. Mobil1 doesn't have much. Castrol is about 1/3. Total Quartz is almost all PAO. It must depend on what non-oil additives are in there to stave off oxidation and deposits, not just the base oil used.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by paoester


PAO % in 508 oils: Its all over the place. Mobil1 doesn't have much. Castrol is about 1/3. Total Quartz is almost all PAO.


What leads you to that conclusion? I may grab that Total for a VOA. Anyone know what kind of add pack they use, as far as boron or moly, and detergent?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
MK7 Golf R Stage 2 Oil Selection
Replies
9
Views
1K
jeffy876
F
Why do oils lose spec approvals?
2
Replies
21
Views
1K
f355spider
donnyj08
Early Oil Change on New VW EA888?
4 5 6
Replies
119
Views
4K
KEVINK0000
R
  • Locked
Heavier Wt Alternatives to 508/509 & BMW FE17+ (0-20 oils)
Replies
5
Views
960
JHZR2
V
Highest viscosity euro 40wt oils
Replies
13
Views
787
FCD
Back
Top