DOT disallows Delta ban on Pitbulls as service animals

[RayCJ]

FWIW: In my personal opinion, the whole concept of an "Emotional Support Animal" on airplanes etc, is baloney brought to you by someone with "issues" and/or a distorted view of the world Yes, I get it... there are people with psychiatric issues and are greatly aided by having a pet. -And people with such issues have no business dictating legislation upon the populous. If they need to go somewhere, they can get in a car or arrange special transportation as needed to accommodate their animal.

I do believe however that humans and dogs have a unique position together. We evolved side-by-side in time. Wild dogs found it advantageous to live nearby early humans (and vise-versa). In the remote south American jungles where indigenous tribes, still living in stone-age technology exist, dogs are part of their every day life and are cared-for and treated well. No other domesticated animal has evolved with humans with such symbiosis.

Just so happens that I really don't care for dogs that slobber (all the breeds I've ever had are not the slobbering kind) and no way would I want one next to me on an airplane. I don't care if people bring them to big hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowes etc) as long as their leashed and under control. IMO, dogs don't belong in grocery stores or eateries. Fines for not "picking-up" after a dog should start at $1000.

Ray

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by Black_Thunder

If there is any Pit Bull in this dog, it is a smaller percentage mix. Pit Bulls are terriers and smaller in size, this dog looks more like a bigger retriever-type dog (look at the length of her snout, the shape of her head and body, and her coat), specifically, she looks mostly like a Lab and except for a difference in the ears she looks just like the yellow Lab that I had back in the 1980s.
I DO know what a Pit Bull looks like, my next door neighbor has two of them, both purebreds. Both are very well trained and under my neighbor's full control and supervision at all times. Still, they scare the heck out of my wife. Unlike some clueless Pit owners, my neighbor does not take them to off-leash dog parks. Allstate would not sell him homeowner's insurance because of the dogs.

 

[billt460]

Granted he had no business in the backyard. From the looks of the place a wrongful death law suit won't produce anything. As they say, you can't get blood from a stone.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-teen-pit-bulls-mauling-dead

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by billt460
Granted he had no business in the backyard. From the looks of the place a wrongful death law suit won't produce anything. As they say, you can't get blood from a stone.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-teen-pit-bulls-mauling-dead



Yep, I saw this earlier today... The place it happened appears to be a junk yard or some kind of low-end resale dump. I'm guessing the owner of the 3 dogs accomplished the goal he intended to achieve. Protect his junk yard and let his dogs kill anyone who tried to steal his stuff.

 

[dja4260]

I'm not going to get into an internet bickering match. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have two "pitbull dogs", A 115lb American Pitbull Terrier, and a 65lb Staffordshire terrier. They are part of my family. They have never harmed anyone or anything.

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by dja4260
I'm not going to get into an internet bickering match. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have two "pitbull dogs", A 115lb American Pitbull Terrier, and a 65lb Staffordshire terrier. They are part of my family. They have never harmed anyone or anything.

Too funny! I know exactly what the light brown (presumably female) dog is thinking: "He's in my spot so, if I sit here long enough, I'll eventually get it back".

What are their names?

Ray

 

[Pew]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
We've had this conversation before.
There is a difference, a very important one, between service animals and emotional support animals.
No person or company can ban a qualified service animal in the States. Service animals go thought significant detailed training by licensed companies, with specific purposes for the animal.
ESAs, in my opinion, are not without controversy and I believe any person or company should be able to ban them if they can reasonably justify the effort, even on an "as needed" basis.
Remember the whom desired her ESA peacock to the on the flight? Or the ESA snake. It's already gotten ridiculous; this thread just illuminates the topic is continuing.
For the rest of my response, I'm going to exclude true "service animals" and only speak to the topic of ESAs. I fully accept that true service animals have bonafide purposes. ESAs, however, are where the disagreement starts.


This. ESA =/= support animals and there's a find line between a ESA and an official support animal that is properly labeled and trained as such.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by dnewton3
We've had this conversation before.
There is a difference, a very important one, between service animals and emotional support animals.
No person or company can ban a qualified service animal in the States. Service animals go thought significant detailed training by licensed companies, with specific purposes for the animal.
ESAs, in my opinion, are not without controversy and I believe any person or company should be able to ban them if they can reasonably justify the effort, even on an "as needed" basis.
Remember the whom desired her ESA peacock to the on the flight? Or the ESA snake. It's already gotten ridiculous; this thread just illuminates the topic is continuing.
For the rest of my response, I'm going to exclude true "service animals" and only speak to the topic of ESAs. I fully accept that true service animals have bonafide purposes. ESAs, however, are where the disagreement starts.


This. ESA =/= support animals and there's a find line between a ESA and an official support animal that is properly labeled and trained as such.


There is a huge amount of ambiguity regarding service animal vs. emotional support animal. Both the original article linked and the Delta Airline website addressing the subject are ambiguous : https://www.delta.com/us/en/accessible-travel-services/service-animals ...Delta seems to allow both service animals (by law) AND support animals. It is very confusing.

Also, to correct some errors above. Service animals can be owner trained, not just professionally trained. The certification process is loosely defined and administrated - basically there is no official certification process. This is why the incidence of fake service animals is abused like most other aspects of our lives. The idea that service dogs only assist the blind or are always large breeds is also a misconception.

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/service-dog-training-101/

"You do not have to register a service dog. Registration or certification of a service dog or ESA is not required by law in the United States. In America, a physician or mental health professional prescribes a certified service dog who is arduously trained to perform necessary tasks and duties for an individual with physical, psychiatric or emotional disabilities."

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

ESA = BS designation for individuals are who are mentally unfit to travel or too cheap to pay the cost of putting the dog in a carrier either in the cabin or in the hold below. There's a little cottage industry over these certificates out of Florida.

Although I may go to jail, it will be nothing like what the owner will endure if I get bitten by his/her ESA.

 

[dja4260]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by dja4260
I'm not going to get into an internet bickering match. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have two "pitbull dogs", A 115lb American Pitbull Terrier, and a 65lb Staffordshire terrier. They are part of my family. They have never harmed anyone or anything.

Too funny! I know exactly what the light brown (presumably female) dog is thinking: "He's in my spot so, if I sit here long enough, I'll eventually get it back".

What are their names?

Ray




Brutus is the brindle, Lacy girl is fawn/tan. They play and look after my two daughters on a daily basis. Good dogs!

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by billt460
Granted he had no business in the backyard. From the looks of the place a wrongful death law suit won't produce anything. As they say, you can't get blood from a stone.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-teen-pit-bulls-mauling-dead


Anyone notice the "Jason" mask on the fence? That doesn't look like the yard of a sane person.

 

[PandaBear]

Just wondering, do service dog need those mouth cover on during flights? Also are they on leash on flight?

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by dja4260
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by dja4260
I'm not going to get into an internet bickering match. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have two "pitbull dogs", A 115lb American Pitbull Terrier, and a 65lb Staffordshire terrier. They are part of my family. They have never harmed anyone or anything.

Too funny! I know exactly what the light brown (presumably female) dog is thinking: "He's in my spot so, if I sit here long enough, I'll eventually get it back".

What are their names?

Ray




Brutus is the brindle, Lacy girl is fawn/tan. They play and look after my two daughters on a daily basis. Good dogs!


Give Brutus and Lacy girl a big hug for me. Quite literally, they look like a ton of fun! If they accept strangers, I'd be on that mattress playing with them.

Here's more recent pics of Sash. She's almost 10 years old now. I got her at the used dog store when she was 1 year old. Came from a family that had financial problems but cared for her very well. Very special dog. She's sitting on the grass in front of the house next to the sidewalk. No fence. All the neighbors know her and walk right by or stop to pet or sit with her. She has a fan club with all the neighborhood kids. Mailman, UPS and FedEx driver all love her. In this picture here, she was getting ready for a nap as shown in the second picture. I'll be in the garage working and she'll zonk-out like that for an hour or more. She's only out like that while I'm out with her or in the garage/shop.

 

[dja4260]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by dja4260
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by dja4260
I'm not going to get into an internet bickering match. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have two "pitbull dogs", A 115lb American Pitbull Terrier, and a 65lb Staffordshire terrier. They are part of my family. They have never harmed anyone or anything.

Too funny! I know exactly what the light brown (presumably female) dog is thinking: "He's in my spot so, if I sit here long enough, I'll eventually get it back".

What are their names?

Ray




Brutus is the brindle, Lacy girl is fawn/tan. They play and look after my two daughters on a daily basis. Good dogs!


Give Brutus and Lacy girl a big hug for me. Quite literally, they look like a ton of fun! If they accept strangers, I'd be on that mattress playing with them.

Here's more recent pics of Sash. She's almost 10 years old now. I got her at the used dog store when she was 1 year old. Came from a family that had financial problems but cared for her very well. Very special dog. She's sitting on the grass in front of the house next to the sidewalk. No fence. All the neighbors know her and walk right by or stop to pet or sit with her. She has a fan club with all the neighborhood kids. Mailman, UPS and FedEx driver all love her. In this picture here, she was getting ready for a nap as shown in the second picture. I'll be in the garage working and she'll zonk-out like that for an hour or more. She's only out like that while I'm out with her or in the garage/shop.




Both Brutus and Lacy came from bad situations. Brutus was found tied to a light pole in a rough area of Chicago, he was all skin and bones. Lacy was breed multiple times and dumped at the shelter. Both are kind and welcoming to everyone. They care for my kids, sit next to my wife when she breast feeds. It's a shame that 20 different dog beeds get lumped into a "Pitbull" category, and are deemed dangerous, vicious, etc. I firmly believe, "judge the deed, not the breed".

You dog Sash is beautiful.

Here are some more pictures

of my couch potatoes:

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by dja4260

You dog Sash is beautiful.

Here are some more pictures

of my couch potatoes:





Much thanks -and you have a very lovely family too. Pontoon boat... Hmmm, are you down in the Coal-City area in the old strip mines? I used to fish down there.

Yeah... each dog is unique. Previously, I just had Linus and Leila (Rat terrier and Chihuahua) and when I got Sash, one neighbor threw tantrums. They were open minded and figured-out Sash was just as playful as Linus and Leila. LOL... A year later that same neighbor borrowed Sash for a couple days because the husband was out of town and we had a rampaging neighborhood punk threatening all the women in the area. (That punk finally crossed the line and is serving time for home invasion and burglary).

Oh, the bird is Sunny the cockatiel. He's 18 years old. When I got Sash, one winter day, I couldn't find Sunny. Uh oh... I searched all over. Sash was donut-rolled sleeping on the couch and Sunny was sleeping in the donut hole, nice and warm. They're buddies and Sunny eat's out of Sash's bowl at dinner time.

Ray

 

[sloinker]

There are literally thousands of pit bull videos on You tube showing the destruction wrought by this breed. Killing other dogs, killing cats, attacking children, attacking adults. Every once in a while attacking a cop. There is something wrong with this breed that goes beyond the way it may be raised. Too many stories of otherwise peaceful,sweet,loving pits flying off the handle and causing carnage. I for one wouldn't let my toddler sleep with a pit on the floor. There are good reasons why they are banned in some localities and fast becoming a liability for anyone that may actually have assets.

 

[Pew]

Originally Posted by sloinker
There are literally thousands of pit bull videos on You tube showing the destruction wrought by this breed. Killing other dogs, killing cats, attacking children, attacking adults. Every once in a while attacking a cop. There is something wrong with this breed that goes beyond the way it may be raised. Too many stories of otherwise peaceful,sweet,loving pits flying off the handle and causing carnage. I for one wouldn't let my toddler sleep with a pit on the floor. There are good reasons why they are banned in some localities and fast becoming a liability for anyone that may actually have assets.


Sounds like humans. Interesting this is, whilst I love animals (but I'm allergic to cats and dogs) I've never had an issue among any pitbulls I've encountered. My friend's husky on the other hand has eaten several rabbits last summer.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by sloinker
There are literally thousands of pit bull videos on You tube showing the destruction wrought by this breed. Killing other dogs, killing cats, attacking children, attacking adults. Every once in a while attacking a cop. There is something wrong with this breed that goes beyond the way it may be raised. Too many stories of otherwise peaceful,sweet,loving pits flying off the handle and causing carnage. I for one wouldn't let my toddler sleep with a pit on the floor. There are good reasons why they are banned in some localities and fast becoming a liability for anyone that may actually have assets.


These dogs, along with early examples of bulldogs, were/have only been bred for fighting. Photos of these dogs with children or babies will not miraculously change that.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by sloinker
There are literally thousands of pit bull videos on You tube showing the destruction wrought by this breed.

That may be, but I'd be hesitant to use YouTube as evidence. As much as I like to watch YouTube videos, there are more than enough clickbait videos there, and that's not counting even the pure nonsense or people with agendas.

 

[dja4260]

Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by sloinker
There are literally thousands of pit bull videos on You tube showing the destruction wrought by this breed.

That may be, but I'd be hesitant to use YouTube as evidence. As much as I like to watch YouTube videos, there are more than enough clickbait videos there, and that's not counting even the pure nonsense or people with agendas.


I feel that his mind is clearly made up and who am I to tell him he's wrong. I would hope that people take an afternoon to visit your local shelter. 80% of the dogs housed are 1 of the 20 breeds that encompass's what is considered a "Pitbull". So many great dogs that need a home. I strongly believe: Judge the deed, not the breed.