Originally Posted by Fawteen
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Dave9 said:
DOT disallows Delta ban on Pitbulls as service animals
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Originally Posted by billt460
Go by municipal laws and insurance statistics. Many cities have a ban in place on Pit Bulls and other aggressive breeds. They name them "aggressive breeds" for a reason. Many homeowners insurance policies will not give you liability coverage if you own one of these breeds. German Shepard's, Rottweiler's, Pit Bull's, Doberman's, Bull Mastiff's, along with several other breeds are lumped into this category.
The reason is because they attack with the most frequency, and cause the most damage when they do. We just bought a new home, and when I purchased a homeowners insurance policy, they asked me if I had a dog. I told them yes, and the next question was what breed is it. When I said a 16 pound toy Poodle mix, it was not a problem. If it had been one of the breeds I just mentioned, they would not write a liability policy. There is a reason for that.
Insurance is a game of statistics. The odds of it attacking or biting someone are against you if you own a large, aggressive breed. Or what they determine as such. It's much the same if you insure a 700+ horsepower Dodge Demon, as opposed to a 4 cylinder Toyota Camry.
And while a sleeping Pit Bull certainly comes off as docile, all animals sleep. Even 20 foot Nile Crocodile's. They just don't do it on the family couch.
You don't research much do you?
Go by municipal laws and insurance statistics. Many cities have a ban in place on Pit Bulls and other aggressive breeds. They name them "aggressive breeds" for a reason. Many homeowners insurance policies will not give you liability coverage if you own one of these breeds. German Shepard's, Rottweiler's, Pit Bull's, Doberman's, Bull Mastiff's, along with several other breeds are lumped into this category.
The reason is because they attack with the most frequency, and cause the most damage when they do. We just bought a new home, and when I purchased a homeowners insurance policy, they asked me if I had a dog. I told them yes, and the next question was what breed is it. When I said a 16 pound toy Poodle mix, it was not a problem. If it had been one of the breeds I just mentioned, they would not write a liability policy. There is a reason for that.
Insurance is a game of statistics. The odds of it attacking or biting someone are against you if you own a large, aggressive breed. Or what they determine as such. It's much the same if you insure a 700+ horsepower Dodge Demon, as opposed to a 4 cylinder Toyota Camry.
And while a sleeping Pit Bull certainly comes off as docile, all animals sleep. Even 20 foot Nile Crocodile's. They just don't do it on the family couch.
You don't research much do you?
Originally Posted by Leo99
Cute dog.
I haven't read the links or anything. Why can't a private company make their own rules? My daughter has a pit mix type dog. It's scary. You're either part of its pack or you're not to that dog. It loves to sit on my feet. I assume that mean it thinks I'm part of the its pack. I hope so.
Too many people have taken advantage of the service pet rules just to bring their ill mannered dogs on board the plane for free.
Looks like a nice doggie.
If Delta doesn't want to fly pitbulls and Coyotes and Chows I say its their prerogative.
GVT needs to stay away from this issue. The Market will work it out.
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I guess some of you guys dont get enough facebook exposure and it spills over in here
.
Should I post pictures of my fat orange rescue cat? I don't have farcebook so I need to show the world my fat orange cat!
Cute dog.
I haven't read the links or anything. Why can't a private company make their own rules? My daughter has a pit mix type dog. It's scary. You're either part of its pack or you're not to that dog. It loves to sit on my feet. I assume that mean it thinks I'm part of the its pack. I hope so.
Too many people have taken advantage of the service pet rules just to bring their ill mannered dogs on board the plane for free.
Looks like a nice doggie.
If Delta doesn't want to fly pitbulls and Coyotes and Chows I say its their prerogative.
GVT needs to stay away from this issue. The Market will work it out.
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I guess some of you guys dont get enough facebook exposure and it spills over in here
. Should I post pictures of my fat orange rescue cat? I don't have farcebook so I need to show the world my fat orange cat!
Pitbulls were bred with certain traits. Not every bitbull will exhibit those traits. An inordinate number of pitbull owners don't recognize, control or train their dogs with those traits in mind and buy a pitbull for their ego. Those are the pitbulls to worry about. Close friends had a pitbull, a rescue that would only kill you by licking you to death...because she LOVED you that much. We often allowed our dog (shepherd x) to play with her, but there were moments where she would get very wound up and start to spin around, get overexcited and loose a bit of control. Those were the moments our friends would put an end to play and calm their dog. Some natural instinct would crop up that needs to be recognized and dealt with. Again, many owners are feeding their ego with their dog choices...too often a bully breed.
AZjeff
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Man I love dogs, there's never been a time in my life without dogs. That said I wouldn't own a pit or a rottie. Just can't find a reason to own a breed that can and will kill people no matter the reason. I've nothing to prove. How many time after a pit bull attack have the owners said it was the sweetest dog who never did anything like this? Are they all secret dog fighters? Did they all abuse the PB? No way. Dogs have prey drive and dogs have triggers.
Right now we have 2 dogs, one is an 8 year old Australian Cattle Dog who is obedience trained to a pretty high degree. He has a flaw, he is aggressive to other dogs and it can't be trained out of him, it's a breed tendency. Not all have it but some will. Some ACDs don't like strange people.
If my cattle dog would attack you you're going to the hospital for some dog bites. If your pit bull attacks me at the least I'm likely in for major surgery and it may kill me.
On the national news a week or so ago was an attack in Texas of a 6 year old. At least the owners had the dog put down. Attack
Is this graphic false?
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/08/full-39399-35198-20180914_deadly_dogs_forbes.jpg "[Linked Image]")
PIt bulls in the cabin with a muzzle device, maybe. Otherwise no thanks. Does your right as an owner have more meaning than the rights of people not comfortable around the breed? The breed has it's reputation for a reason.
Right now we have 2 dogs, one is an 8 year old Australian Cattle Dog who is obedience trained to a pretty high degree. He has a flaw, he is aggressive to other dogs and it can't be trained out of him, it's a breed tendency. Not all have it but some will. Some ACDs don't like strange people.
If my cattle dog would attack you you're going to the hospital for some dog bites. If your pit bull attacks me at the least I'm likely in for major surgery and it may kill me.
On the national news a week or so ago was an attack in Texas of a 6 year old. At least the owners had the dog put down. Attack
Is this graphic false?
PIt bulls in the cabin with a muzzle device, maybe. Otherwise no thanks. Does your right as an owner have more meaning than the rights of people not comfortable around the breed? The breed has it's reputation for a reason.
If I recall correctly what I have read on this subject, Delta did not ban pit pulls as service animals, but only as comfort animals. But my recollection may be incorrect. Did Delta base their decision to ban pit bull dogs as comfort animals, based upon public opinion? Perhaps. But it seems much more likely that it was based upon statistical data that shows the danger of pit bull dogs. Either way, Delta is probably fine with the DOT decision, as it now takes any liability off of Delta when (not if) another passenger is injured by an aggressive dog. At least the liability of trying to police the risk of certain dog breeds.
Anyone bringing a dog on a flight should be very concerned about how it will react, to what is going to be a very different environment. Any dog that is protective of it's owner may misinterpret things when a total stranger sits down uncomfortably close. Activities that are totally normal on a plane could also me misinterpreted by a dog.
If a passenger assigned a seat next to me was bringing on board a dog breed that is known to bite, I may be inclined to ask for a change in seating. I love dogs. But they can be very unpredictable when put into unusual conditions.
Anyone bringing a dog on a flight should be very concerned about how it will react, to what is going to be a very different environment. Any dog that is protective of it's owner may misinterpret things when a total stranger sits down uncomfortably close. Activities that are totally normal on a plane could also me misinterpreted by a dog.
If a passenger assigned a seat next to me was bringing on board a dog breed that is known to bite, I may be inclined to ask for a change in seating. I love dogs. But they can be very unpredictable when put into unusual conditions.
My roommate has two that are not trained to be service animals. They're two beefy knuckleheads and can be very protective.
Theyve literally caught me having a seizure three times. Even though they have no training, one laid next to me and the other "licked" me out of it.
They both visit my room, stare at my three fancy rats, and sometimes I'll let them play together. Theyll let the rats crawl on them, clean them (lick them), and they dont really do anything.
I've met some good ones and I've met some bad ones.
Also, I think the meanest dog I ever met was a Dalmatian. But again, I've met nice and I've met mean dalmatians
Theyve literally caught me having a seizure three times. Even though they have no training, one laid next to me and the other "licked" me out of it.
They both visit my room, stare at my three fancy rats, and sometimes I'll let them play together. Theyll let the rats crawl on them, clean them (lick them), and they dont really do anything.
I've met some good ones and I've met some bad ones.
Also, I think the meanest dog I ever met was a Dalmatian. But again, I've met nice and I've met mean dalmatians
Why anyone would choose a Pit Bull to be a service animal defies logic IMO.
There is ample reason to be concerned about Pit Bulls. Study this...
https://www.animals24-7.org/2019/01/03/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-u-s-canada-1982-2018-log/
Some other facts to consider...
There are over 100 municipalities that have banned the ownership of Pit Bulls including Denver, Miami, and Cincinnati.
There are thousands of HOAs that have banned the ownership of Pit Bulls.
Several insurance companies won't write new homeowner policies for owners of Pit Bulls.
Nearly 70% of all the dogs coming into shelters are Pit Bulls or Pit Bull mixes, ever wonder why? Former ASPCA president Ed Sayres has stated that in his opinion it is a bad idea for a family to adopt one from a shelter.
Can Pit Bulls be good pets? Yes. Can Pit Bulls be dangerous? Yes.
To be fair, the same can be said about Rottweilers.
There is ample reason to be concerned about Pit Bulls. Study this...
https://www.animals24-7.org/2019/01/03/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-u-s-canada-1982-2018-log/
Some other facts to consider...
There are over 100 municipalities that have banned the ownership of Pit Bulls including Denver, Miami, and Cincinnati.
There are thousands of HOAs that have banned the ownership of Pit Bulls.
Several insurance companies won't write new homeowner policies for owners of Pit Bulls.
Nearly 70% of all the dogs coming into shelters are Pit Bulls or Pit Bull mixes, ever wonder why? Former ASPCA president Ed Sayres has stated that in his opinion it is a bad idea for a family to adopt one from a shelter.
Can Pit Bulls be good pets? Yes. Can Pit Bulls be dangerous? Yes.
To be fair, the same can be said about Rottweilers.
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Not legal or enforceable. If it's a service animal, it's a service animal.
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Is this graphic false?
How is Chihuahua not on that list?
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Is this graphic false?
How is Chihuahua not on that list?
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Ever hear of a cow trampling a child? I have.
Which is one of the reasons why cows aren't allowed in the cabin of an airliner.
Would anyone who trains actual working service dogs (not "comfort animals", i.e. pets) consider a young pitbull as a viable candidate?
Ever hear of a cow trampling a child? I have.
Which is one of the reasons why cows aren't allowed in the cabin of an airliner.
Would anyone who trains actual working service dogs (not "comfort animals", i.e. pets) consider a young pitbull as a viable candidate?
A lot of people don't even know what a pitbull looks like either
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Man I love dogs, there's never been a time in my life without dogs. That said I wouldn't own a pit or a rottie. Just can't find a reason to own a breed that can and will kill people no matter the reason. I've nothing to prove. How many time after a pit bull attack have the owners said it was the sweetest dog who never did anything like this? Are they all secret dog fighters? Did they all abuse the PB? No way. Dogs have prey drive and dogs have triggers.
Right now we have 2 dogs, one is an 8 year old Australian Cattle Dog who is obedience trained to a pretty high degree. He has a flaw, he is aggressive to other dogs and it can't be trained out of him, it's a breed tendency. Not all have it but some will. Some ACDs don't like strange people.
If my cattle dog would attack you you're going to the hospital for some dog bites. If your pit bull attacks me at the least I'm likely in for major surgery and it may kill me.
On the national news a week or so ago was an attack in Texas of a 6 year old. At least the owners had the dog put down. Attack
Is this graphic false?
PIt bulls in the cabin with a muzzle device, maybe. Otherwise no thanks. Does your right as an owner have more meaning than the rights of people not comfortable around the breed? The breed has it's reputation for a reason.
Likely yes like I posted earlier a lot of people misidentify pit bulls for something else and the graphic of a steroided up freak of nature with cropped ears over pronounced head and docked tail is not a pit bull. It is a designer dog some "person" felt like they needed an animal to stroke their ego.
Man I love dogs, there's never been a time in my life without dogs. That said I wouldn't own a pit or a rottie. Just can't find a reason to own a breed that can and will kill people no matter the reason. I've nothing to prove. How many time after a pit bull attack have the owners said it was the sweetest dog who never did anything like this? Are they all secret dog fighters? Did they all abuse the PB? No way. Dogs have prey drive and dogs have triggers.
Right now we have 2 dogs, one is an 8 year old Australian Cattle Dog who is obedience trained to a pretty high degree. He has a flaw, he is aggressive to other dogs and it can't be trained out of him, it's a breed tendency. Not all have it but some will. Some ACDs don't like strange people.
If my cattle dog would attack you you're going to the hospital for some dog bites. If your pit bull attacks me at the least I'm likely in for major surgery and it may kill me.
On the national news a week or so ago was an attack in Texas of a 6 year old. At least the owners had the dog put down. Attack
Is this graphic false?
PIt bulls in the cabin with a muzzle device, maybe. Otherwise no thanks. Does your right as an owner have more meaning than the rights of people not comfortable around the breed? The breed has it's reputation for a reason.
Likely yes like I posted earlier a lot of people misidentify pit bulls for something else and the graphic of a steroided up freak of nature with cropped ears over pronounced head and docked tail is not a pit bull. It is a designer dog some "person" felt like they needed an animal to stroke their ego.
Originally Posted by mk378
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Ever hear of a cow trampling a child? I have.
Which is one of the reasons why cows aren't allowed in the cabin of an airliner.
Would anyone who trains actual working service dogs (not "comfort animals", i.e. pets) consider a young pitbull as a viable candidate?
Yes because dogs are dogs and the temperament of the dog is the determining factor for it's usefulness not breed
https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/can-a-pit-bull-be-a-service-dog/
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Ever hear of a cow trampling a child? I have.
Which is one of the reasons why cows aren't allowed in the cabin of an airliner.
Would anyone who trains actual working service dogs (not "comfort animals", i.e. pets) consider a young pitbull as a viable candidate?
Yes because dogs are dogs and the temperament of the dog is the determining factor for it's usefulness not breed
https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/can-a-pit-bull-be-a-service-dog/
Originally Posted by oldhp
"Any" animal will be mean if they are taught that. "NO" animal is born mean. Sadly pitbull dogs are labeled mean, no matter what.
I don't think pit bulls are mean. Animals are born unpredictable. Breeders try and take out the aggressive qualities in breeding. For whatever reason pitbulls and some other breeds are not consistently successful. Many insurance companies won't cover pitbulls under homeowners. Home insurance is based on math statistics and payouts not opinion.
"Any" animal will be mean if they are taught that. "NO" animal is born mean. Sadly pitbull dogs are labeled mean, no matter what.
I don't think pit bulls are mean. Animals are born unpredictable. Breeders try and take out the aggressive qualities in breeding. For whatever reason pitbulls and some other breeds are not consistently successful. Many insurance companies won't cover pitbulls under homeowners. Home insurance is based on math statistics and payouts not opinion.
The problem with the chart as presented by the Dogsbite.org site is they only show the total number of fatalities.
That's how a dog like the labrador retriever ends up on that list - by the sheer number of them out there.
If you look at rate of fatalities by breed, the Pitbull numbers leap off the charts even more.
That being said, dog behavior is significantly tied to training and socialization along with overall temperment. I've owned three different labs, and all have had different security/aggression responses. We've had to work hard with our current chocolate to reinforce correct behavior - I still trust her with me and my family, but watch carefully with other kids and adults. We don't know where she came from, but it has been clear socialization was an issue in her past...
That's how a dog like the labrador retriever ends up on that list - by the sheer number of them out there.
If you look at rate of fatalities by breed, the Pitbull numbers leap off the charts even more.
That being said, dog behavior is significantly tied to training and socialization along with overall temperment. I've owned three different labs, and all have had different security/aggression responses. We've had to work hard with our current chocolate to reinforce correct behavior - I still trust her with me and my family, but watch carefully with other kids and adults. We don't know where she came from, but it has been clear socialization was an issue in her past...
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by oldhp
"Any" animal will be mean if they are taught that. "NO" animal is born mean. Sadly pitbull dogs are labeled mean, no matter what.
I don't think pit bulls are mean. Animals are born unpredictable. Breeders try and take out the aggressive qualities in breeding. For whatever reason pitbulls and some other breeds are not consistently successful. Many insurance companies won't cover pitbulls under homeowners. Home insurance is based on math statistics and payouts not opinion.
The "breeders" are successful too many "breeders" are looking for dogs with big heads, muscled bodies, aggressive, with no purpose but to look mean.
Originally Posted by oldhp
"Any" animal will be mean if they are taught that. "NO" animal is born mean. Sadly pitbull dogs are labeled mean, no matter what.
I don't think pit bulls are mean. Animals are born unpredictable. Breeders try and take out the aggressive qualities in breeding. For whatever reason pitbulls and some other breeds are not consistently successful. Many insurance companies won't cover pitbulls under homeowners. Home insurance is based on math statistics and payouts not opinion.
The "breeders" are successful too many "breeders" are looking for dogs with big heads, muscled bodies, aggressive, with no purpose but to look mean.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by oldhp
"Any" animal will be mean if they are taught that. "NO" animal is born mean. Sadly pitbull dogs are labeled mean, no matter what.
I don't think pit bulls are mean. Animals are born unpredictable. Breeders try and take out the aggressive qualities in breeding. For whatever reason pitbulls and some other breeds are not consistently successful. Many insurance companies won't cover pitbulls under homeowners. Home insurance is based on math statistics and payouts not opinion.
The "breeders" are successful too many "breeders" are looking for dogs with big heads, muscled bodies, aggressive, with no purpose but to look mean.
In reality, just about any large breed dog can inflict serious damage. Pound-for-pound, pitbulls just happen to be among the strongest and muscular type out there -and that is precisely why super low IQ morons regularly train them for dog fights. There is a community near me that happens to have a very large concentration of very low IQ morons and said individuals were busted (many times over a period of many years) in police stings for dog fighting. The community subsequently banned pitbulls but in reality, they placed controls on their low IQ morons to halt their illegal activity. Yes, these morons are screwing-up the breed because they do in-fact mate the most aggressive ones. There is a lot of this going on but, of course, it's easier to blame the breed and not the morons doing the bad breeding.
Personally, I think dog fighting and raising dogs for aggressive traits should be a felony. Sadly, the low IQ types that do this usually are let off the hook by the court system.
When I got my dog (from a local adoption center) I looked for Am-Staffs which are a pit breed not well suited for fighting. I also selected a dog that had a known/documented history and most important, I spent several hours with each dog observing its behavior.
Finally... Many breeds have gone through phases of being the outlaw. Some movie, TV show or knucklehead "performer" (i.e. moron "rap star") will glorify some dog for all the wrong reasons; and soon after, every low IQ idiot in town gets one. The problem here is the low IQ owner. Dobermans, German Shephards, Rottweilers, Great Danes and probably a few I can't think of, have all been demonized. As always, some pattern of "statistics" always shows-up to prove how that breed is more dangerous than all the others. In the 60's and 70's it was Dobermans. In the 80's it was Mastiffs and German Shepards. Starting in the 90's pitbulls are the enemy of the day…. I've owned dogs for over 50 years and have seen this over and over and over…
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by oldhp
"Any" animal will be mean if they are taught that. "NO" animal is born mean. Sadly pitbull dogs are labeled mean, no matter what.
I don't think pit bulls are mean. Animals are born unpredictable. Breeders try and take out the aggressive qualities in breeding. For whatever reason pitbulls and some other breeds are not consistently successful. Many insurance companies won't cover pitbulls under homeowners. Home insurance is based on math statistics and payouts not opinion.
The "breeders" are successful too many "breeders" are looking for dogs with big heads, muscled bodies, aggressive, with no purpose but to look mean.
In reality, just about any large breed dog can inflict serious damage. Pound-for-pound, pitbulls just happen to be among the strongest and muscular type out there -and that is precisely why super low IQ morons regularly train them for dog fights. There is a community near me that happens to have a very large concentration of very low IQ morons and said individuals were busted (many times over a period of many years) in police stings for dog fighting. The community subsequently banned pitbulls but in reality, they placed controls on their low IQ morons to halt their illegal activity. Yes, these morons are screwing-up the breed because they do in-fact mate the most aggressive ones. There is a lot of this going on but, of course, it's easier to blame the breed and not the morons doing the bad breeding.
Personally, I think dog fighting and raising dogs for aggressive traits should be a felony. Sadly, the low IQ types that do this usually are let off the hook by the court system.
When I got my dog (from a local adoption center) I looked for Am-Staffs which are a pit breed not well suited for fighting. I also selected a dog that had a known/documented history and most important, I spent several hours with each dog observing its behavior.
Finally... Many breeds have gone through phases of being the outlaw. Some movie, TV show or knucklehead "performer" (i.e. moron "rap star") will glorify some dog for all the wrong reasons; and soon after, every low IQ idiot in town gets one. The problem here is the low IQ owner. Dobermans, German Shephards, Rottweilers, Great Danes and probably a few I can't think of, have all been demonized. As always, some pattern of "statistics" always shows-up to prove how that breed is more dangerous than all the others. In the 60's and 70's it was Dobermans. In the 80's it was Mastiffs and German Shepards. Starting in the 90's pitbulls are the enemy of the day…. I've owned dogs for over 50 years and have seen this over and over and over…
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I'd agree. Is there any dog breed more ill mannered than a chihuahua? Of course, they don't have the physical presence to make the news or cause a moral panic.
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