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LSPI Event - ? #5135536
06/16/19 08:39 AM
06/16/19 08:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
New Jersey
josephp732 Offline OP
josephp732  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
New Jersey
I have a 2015 Ford Expedition with Gen 1 Ecoboost V6 (twin turbo), HD tow package - rated to tow 9,200lbs.
Since new, after the factory break-in oil, I have used PUP 5W-30.

I was towing NJ to FL my boat and trailer weight about 5,500lbs and the SUV was also pretty loaded with stuff.
The boat is a center console and it was shrink-wrapped - so a lot of front windage and drag.

I stopped for the night in Jacksonville, FL, in the early morning I jumped back on I-95 North to take the 295 West exchange to get to I-10 West on the way to Tampa.
The I-95 to 295 ramp is a little steep, as I was making the turn up the ramp and as I could see the 295 roadway come into view, I depressed the accelerator to get up to speed and merge into commuter traffic.

As I depressed the accelerator the engine lost power, I pushed the accelerator to the floor but the engine and turbo's wouldn't spool-up. The engine threw a check-engine light and I limped over to the shoulder of the road. Turned the truck off, waited a minute then restarted the engine and drove on with-out any other issues. When I got to Tampa a Ford dealer put a scan device on the truck but no codes came up and it was like the event never happened. It was a bit concerning at the time losing power while trying to merge in to heavy traffic.

Does this sound like a LSPI event? I guess I will be changing the oil from the PUP to a SN+ low calcium oil....

Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135544
06/16/19 08:45 AM
06/16/19 08:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,355
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Triple_Se7en Offline
Triple_Se7en  Offline

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,355
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Originally Posted by josephp732
I have a 2015 Ford Expedition with Gen 1 Ecoboost V6 (twin turbo), HD tow package - rated to tow 9,200lbs.
Since new, after the factory break-in oil, I have used PUP 5W-30.

I was towing NJ to FL my boat and trailer weight about 5,500lbs and the SUV was also pretty loaded with stuff.
The boat is a center console and it was shrink-wrapped - so a lot of front windage and drag.

I stopped for the night in Jacksonville, FL, in the early morning I jumped back on I-95 North to take the 295 West exchange to get to I-10 West on the way to Tampa.
The I-95 to 295 ramp is a little steep, as I was making the turn up the ramp and as I could see the 295 roadway come into view, I depressed the accelerator to get up to speed and merge into commuter traffic.

As I depressed the accelerator the engine lost power, I pushed the accelerator to the floor but the engine and turbo's wouldn't spool-up. The engine threw a check-engine light and I limped over to the shoulder of the road. Turned the truck off, waited a minute then restarted the engine and drove on with-out any other issues. When I got to Tampa a Ford dealer put a scan device on the truck but no codes came up and it was like the event never happened. It was a bit concerning at the time losing power while trying to merge in to heavy traffic.

Does this sound like a LSPI event? I guess I will be changing the oil from the PUP to a SN+ low calcium oil....



I have no idea on what modern-day lspi events do.
(I do know) SN Plus lessens the effects of lspi. It doesn't prevent it. Were you running Top-Tier 93 octane during that trip? If not, you should have been. It also lessens the effects.
Were you hearing any engine marbles upon some steep climbs prior?


Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 06/16/19 08:49 AM.

19 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4GDI Castrol Edge 5w30 / NAPA Mann-Hummel filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly Treatment
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Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135558
06/16/19 08:56 AM
06/16/19 08:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
New Jersey
josephp732 Offline OP
josephp732  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
New Jersey
No I was running "regular" 89 octane Shell gas. No strange sounds that I could discern coming from the engine up to or after this event.

Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135564
06/16/19 09:11 AM
06/16/19 09:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,166
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,166
Ontario, Canada
What RPM was the engine at when this happened? LSPI happens at low engine RPM (hence the LS part), basically under "lugging" conditions, which your drive doesn't sound conducive to.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135571
06/16/19 09:21 AM
06/16/19 09:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,060
Georgia
MParr Offline
MParr  Offline

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,060
Georgia
LSPI event? Doubtful. Sasquatch holding you back? That’s doubtful too. It could be any number of things. I could be the transmission. It could be restricted fuel delivery. It could be turbo problems. It could have been overloaded.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/Ford_Linc_15RVTTgde_May19.pdf


2019 VW Tiguan SE Now: Factory fill & OEM filter
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: NAPA Synthetic 5W30 & NAPA Gold 1348
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135589
06/16/19 09:55 AM
06/16/19 09:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 213
Long Island, N.Y.
incognito_2u Offline
incognito_2u  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 213
Long Island, N.Y.
What’s concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can’t see one..........shouldn’t that code be stored until cleared?


2006 Jeep Commander 3.7 V6 -113k (PUP5W30/XG3600)
2006 Toyota Corolla 1.8 VVTi -82k (M1EPHM5W30/XG3600)
1999 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -86k (QSUD5W30/XG3600)
1998 Toyota Corolla 1.8 -65k (PUP5W30/XG3600)
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135593
06/16/19 09:58 AM
06/16/19 09:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,541
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,541
Jupiter, Florida
Nope. You did not have LSPI.

What you probably had happen is the common Ecoboost issue where atmospheric moisture condenses into water, then fills up the lower level of the intercooler.

Upon heavy throttle application, the water "slug" from the intercooler migrates into the engine and causes misfires. That in turn causes the engine to go into limp-home mode.

Shutdown and restart fixes the limp home mode.

The ECU will not record any issues when this happens.


I drilled a #30 hole at the bottom of the intercooler on the DISCHARGE SIDE. It allow water to constantly spray out, without allowing enough air to lower boost or affect operation. In essence, a tiny leak. This is a common fix, and is better than Ford's fix of blocking off the intercooler to raise it's temperature and therefore increase the temp of the intake air. (lowering HP)


Last edited by Cujet; 06/16/19 10:06 AM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135594
06/16/19 09:59 AM
06/16/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 211
MN
Tman220 Offline
Tman220  Offline

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 211
MN
more than likely the engine got a big slug of water from water in the intercooler.


2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30 90k
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30 165k
2005 GMC Sierra 1500 5.3 160k
2004 Civic LX M5 178k
2007 Camry 2.4 232k
2016 Victory Vegas
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135597
06/16/19 10:01 AM
06/16/19 10:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,541
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,541
Jupiter, Florida
Another common Ecoboost issue is spark plugs. They can misfire under boost, leading to bucking under heavy acceleration. However, this generally does not illuminate the check engine light. EB plugs have a real world life of 30 to 50 thousand miles. Also the gap should be a bit smaller than the plugs originally had. I believe the current plugs and consensus is that 0.032 inches is the correct gap to prevent misfires under heavy boost.


EDIT: If you drill the hole, AND you have the Ford service bulletin that blocks off part of the front of the intercooler. You can now remove the Ford service bulletin to maximize intercooler efficiency.

Last edited by Cujet; 06/16/19 10:09 AM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135599
06/16/19 10:03 AM
06/16/19 10:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 507
Upper midwest
Mainia Offline
Mainia  Offline

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 507
Upper midwest
I know I had a LSPI event in my Hyundai Kona AWD 1.6T early on with FF oil and 87 octane, even though it is speced for 87 octane. I only now use 89 thur 93 octane and never had another event. I get full 17 psi boost at 1,450 rpm. I pushed on the accelerator and WHAM it's like the engine flipped over in the car and it was not a transmission event . The whole car shook., we are talking loud major event that would make you crap your pants. This is far more likely a LSPI event then what you describe.

I have not nailed down my oil yet but have been running Mobil1 5w-30 ESP and now have in Amsoil 0w-40 SS. While the Mobil 1 ESP is not LSPI approved, as with all no racing Mobil 1 oils it is basically a very good non-LSPI oil with very low calcium. ZERO worry's it would pass if tested since it has the same calcium as their approved oils. I still have 14 Qts of ESP left so it will be my oil for a while.

Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: incognito_2u] #5135601
06/16/19 10:05 AM
06/16/19 10:05 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 748
WA
Mad_Hatter Offline
Mad_Hatter  Offline

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 748
WA
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What’s concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can’t see one..........shouldn’t that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 06/16/19 10:07 AM.
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5135603
06/16/19 10:13 AM
06/16/19 10:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 211
MN
Tman220 Offline
Tman220  Offline

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 211
MN
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What’s concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can’t see one..........shouldn’t that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.


"pending codes" happen all the time, if they don't happen again, no hard code can be seen when you pull the codes at a later time.


2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30 90k
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30 165k
2005 GMC Sierra 1500 5.3 160k
2004 Civic LX M5 178k
2007 Camry 2.4 232k
2016 Victory Vegas
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5135604
06/16/19 10:14 AM
06/16/19 10:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,541
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,541
Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What’s concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can’t see one..........shouldn’t that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.


There is some speculation that Ford experienced this during ecoboost testing and did not consider it an emissions related problem. Therefore while the ECU recognizes a misfire, and goes into limp mode, it's due to external factors (moist air) , rather than internal failure.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: Cujet] #5135608
06/16/19 10:20 AM
06/16/19 10:20 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 748
WA
Mad_Hatter Offline
Mad_Hatter  Offline

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 748
WA
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What’s concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can’t see one..........shouldn’t that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.


There is some speculation that Ford experienced this during ecoboost testing and did not consider it an emissions related problem. Therefore while the ECU recognizes a misfire, and goes into limp mode, it's due to external factors (moist air) , rather than internal failure.



Ok, but where is the fault code that triggered the CEL to begin with??? Not storing the DTC would be a new one for me..

I get that a ECU could reset the DTC if it determined there wasn't a bona fide problem, but to get that DTC to trigger the CEL to begin with, the misfire count had to exceed a set threshold to begin with. Where is that DTC??? Seems bizarre that Ford would decide to not even log the DTC.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 06/16/19 10:27 AM.
Re: LSPI Event - ? [Re: josephp732] #5135626
06/16/19 10:43 AM
06/16/19 10:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 886
sonoma
burla Offline
burla  Offline

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 886
sonoma
The only strategy that makes sense with di's is to spec hunt and find an oil that is synthetic full of lspi quenchers like high moly and zinc and find a weight that has the fewest vii's possible. PUP aint it, neither is blended motorcraft.

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