What's to keep someone from...

[14Accent]

Forging oil change receipts? There's a lot of talk around here about using non-warranty conforming oils in newer vehicles, for a wide range of reasons some of which are perfectly valid.

Let's say you have a friend, your friend owns/works at a shop and would/has the ability to "manipulate" the receipt given to you. Like this:

Come in for oil change, let's say Honda 1.5T. Requires 0w20, but you have them put 5w30 Amsoil in it to help combat fuel dilution. But the receipt provided to you is changed to show a 0w20 service. You retain for your records, rinse and repeat.

2 years in, your rod bearings are shot. You provide documentation of 5k oil changes of the 0w20 variety, as per spec. Bam, new engine. Now, this is less about failure rates and more about (some) people preferring to use a different and arguably better oil in a car covered by a factory warranty.

Is there really anything that difficult about doing this, besides the obvious logistics? I could EASILY do this if I wanted to, not that I would. It just got me thinking.

 

[Nickdfresh]

The fact that it's fraud?

 

[Propflux01]

Many times they will do oil analysis to see if the oil caused it, and then the truth comes out.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Propflux01
Many times they will do oil analysis to see if the oil caused it, and then the truth comes out.
There was a thread here a while back about using non-spec oil, and people with dealership experience were saying they first look to see if the oil is dirty and if varnish or sludge has built up under the valve covers to figure out if the engine skipped oil changes. Nothing more than that done.
That could vary by dealership, but its pretty rare to have an engine failure coupled with a UOA oil analysis and detective work done.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Propflux01
Many times they will do oil analysis to see if the oil caused it, and then the truth comes out.
There was a thread here a while back about using non-spec oil, and people with dealership experience were saying they first look to see if the oil is dirty and if varnish or sludge has built up under the valve covers to figure out if the engine skipped oil changes. Nothing more than that done.
That could vary by dealership, but its pretty rare to have an engine failure coupled with a UOA oil analysis and detective work done.

^This. Unless there is clear indication that oil might used it, dealership will not go that route. There are many people in the US that live from suing for whatever.

 

[Kode]

There is no "Bam" a new engine. Litigations and the hassles of trying to cheat the 21st century tech with warranty. Good luck. And if your engine blows because of an oil, then it was a weak engineer design.

 

[PimTac]

Fraud is fraud. Look at all the Subaru owners who modded their engines, suffered engine failures and then removed the mods before going to the Subaru dealer.

Gamers.

 

[ragtoplvr]

OEM's will use a not sold to the public oil filter, and or specially dyed oil to see if ever changed. If you have a warranty claim after the specified miles for an oil change and still have the original filter or oil, then warranty denied. Holds up in court every time.

Rod

 

[14Accent]

Oh I'm quite certain it's fraud, the curiosity lies more into whether or not you would really have to be worried about being caught.

It's not something egregious like installing aftermarket parts and removing them, using a non-stock filter and swapping it just before taking it to the dealer, etc. This is doing routine maintenance at correct intervals without using "correct" oil and maintaining the integrity of the factory warranty, even if you're (objectively) helping the factory by using oil that could be BETTER for the engine in the long run.

To be clear, I'm not implying that I've done this or plan to (none of my cars have a factory warranty anyways). It was simply a random side thought that I figured I would share. Mostly for the opinions. There is a "technical" right answer, which is DON'T DO IT. However, I'm sure there's more than one member that, if told it was OK or they could get away with it scott free, would gladly use non-approved oil in their warrantied vehicles for added piece of mind.

 

[tiger862]

As a former tech as long as engine was clean, oil dirty and computer not programmed no problems. One of these then up to customer to prove he or she is not trying to get over the manufacturers.

 

[oldhp]

Fraud??? You mean like the dealers using bulk oil "one grade of oil fits all?"

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Fraud is fraud. Look at all the Subaru owners who modded their engines, suffered engine failures and then removed the mods before going to the Subaru dealer.
Gamers.

This seemed to be SOP amongst the modders at subaruforester.org. There was more than one who modded up an FXT or WRX with a CVT, damaged the tranny, removed the mods, and then took it in for warranty work or traded it in.
I would imagine that the story on NASIOC was similar...
Apparently the old 4EAT tranny could handle huge power bumps and then the high torque CVT was found to be less forgiving.

 

[Leo99]

So many people think they're smarter than the engineers that designed the engine but also want a safety net in case they're wrong. Use what the OEM says to use or accept the consequences.

 

[Kode]

Originally Posted by oldhp
Fraud??? You mean like the dealers using bulk oil "one grade of oil fits all?"


Maybe just dummies. Plenty of those nowadays.

 

[Bud]

Nothing will stop a dishonest person from doing anything. Until they are caught of course.

 

[KGMtech]

The efforts that cheaters go to for their "game" is not far from what would be required to be compliant with warranty. It's a sport for these cheaters, something usually paid for by all the others.

 

[SeaJay]

If you have an engine failure, you bring it in for a warranty claim. They ask you if you have changed the oil per specs and do you have receipts. You say yes you have, but have not kept any records.

At this point the manufacturer has to somehow show that the engine failure was primarily caused because the oil wasn't changed or the wrong oil used in order to deny the claim. If it can not do that, it will have to honor the warranty.

Some folks here believe that if meticulous records are not kept, than any engine warranty claim will be denied due strictly due to lack of records. Most folks posting here do keep records, but my guess is that the majority of car owners do not bother with records.