So here is a PDF attachment of my 2nd gen ecoboost engine. This was with motorcraft oil and motorcraft filter from a ford dealer.
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MC 5w-30 7.9k mi; 2017 Ford F-150 - 3.5L Ecoboost
- Thread starter jharmon203
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I would bet the silicon is break-in wear, but the iron & viscosity numbers are troubling, I think I would be changing the oil sooner, maybe 5000 miles, and using something like Castrol Magnatec 5W30, which seems to be the go-to Ecoboost oil around here.
Originally Posted by claluja
Probably over 4 or 5% fuel dilution. That may be causing the high iron. That and/or the high silicon? For the silicon, have you put any new gasket seals on recently? May also want to change air filter.
Definitely check the tightness of the air filter path assembly, as silicon could be getting past the filter element somehow here.
KV100 was a bit too low. Consider a higher-viscosity version of a 5w30 oil, like the new Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5w30 or Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w30, which would give you some extra room to drop a little viscosity due to fuel dilution, and still maintain 9+ cSt like the engine really should have here.
This was a topic recently: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5008812/1 and also: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...s-truck-synthetic-engine-oil-q-a-answers
Probably over 4 or 5% fuel dilution. That may be causing the high iron. That and/or the high silicon? For the silicon, have you put any new gasket seals on recently? May also want to change air filter.
Definitely check the tightness of the air filter path assembly, as silicon could be getting past the filter element somehow here.
KV100 was a bit too low. Consider a higher-viscosity version of a 5w30 oil, like the new Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5w30 or Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w30, which would give you some extra room to drop a little viscosity due to fuel dilution, and still maintain 9+ cSt like the engine really should have here.
This was a topic recently: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5008812/1 and also: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...s-truck-synthetic-engine-oil-q-a-answers
I would run Castrol Magnatec 5w30 as stated above and sample it at 5-6k. I personally would never do 8k OCI on a Ecoboost engine, they are not the most friendly on oil.
Thanks for the recommendations and comments on here. I am also on F150 forums to try to do a confirmation on the Intelligent Oil Life Monitor. It was at 20% oil life left based on my driving habits. I am glad changed it when I did, but I a wondering if this could still be considered initial engine break-in time.
Thanks for the comments on the air filter. I will check that to make sure everything is going well. I did switch to fully synthetic oil with my oil change so perhaps that may change the results a bit next time.
Thanks for the comments on the air filter. I will check that to make sure everything is going well. I did switch to fully synthetic oil with my oil change so perhaps that may change the results a bit next time.
Where are you reading 4-5% fuel dilution? Blackstone said they allow up to 2% and mine didn't even read with a TR in that category.
No new gaskets or seals. However, if there is anything you recommend getting check under warranty I still have my factory one with Ford.
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Originally Posted by jharmon203
Where are you reading 4-5% fuel dilution? Blackstone said they allow up to 2% and mine didn't even read with a TR in that category.
I wouldn't think it would be that high, but Blackstone's measurement of fuel dilution is notoriously WAY off. The flashpoint for this lubricant should be ~400F, so 380F indicates some fuel dilution.
Where are you reading 4-5% fuel dilution? Blackstone said they allow up to 2% and mine didn't even read with a TR in that category.
I wouldn't think it would be that high, but Blackstone's measurement of fuel dilution is notoriously WAY off. The flashpoint for this lubricant should be ~400F, so 380F indicates some fuel dilution.
That KV100 is low enough (delta -2.4 cSt from new oil) to indicate maybe 6% or so fuel dilution. Some due to VII permanent shear, yet oxidation raises cSt, probably cancelling the VII shear part. (Widman Viscosity Calculator https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html will give a good ballpark value, using gasoline 0.4 cSt KV100.) If you were using an oil that started at KV100 = 11.7 (Shell Rotella Gas Truck) instead of Motorcraft or other thinner 5w30 oils, you would have still been in the 5w30 visc range at least.
All that might help the iron wear situation. Some of it is due to the fact the engine may have had some particles left over from < 10,000 miles when the engine was breaking in. I'd get a magnetic drain plug and select a Fram Ultra oil filter to clean up the oil better.
Under warranty, you could ask them to inspect the air filter box path, checking for anything loose or any way silica (sand dust) could be getting sucked in. They might charge you for the "inspection" if nothing is wrong though. Many people check it themselves if its easy enough to do, looking at how the air filter seats properly on its gasket down in there and checking the snugness of the air path clamps on the plastic path.
All that might help the iron wear situation. Some of it is due to the fact the engine may have had some particles left over from < 10,000 miles when the engine was breaking in. I'd get a magnetic drain plug and select a Fram Ultra oil filter to clean up the oil better.
Under warranty, you could ask them to inspect the air filter box path, checking for anything loose or any way silica (sand dust) could be getting sucked in. They might charge you for the "inspection" if nothing is wrong though. Many people check it themselves if its easy enough to do, looking at how the air filter seats properly on its gasket down in there and checking the snugness of the air path clamps on the plastic path.
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Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That KV100 is low enough (delta -2.4 cSt from new oil) to indicate maybe 6% or so fuel dilution. Some due to VII permanent shear, yet oxidation raises cSt, probably cancelling the VII shear part. (Widman Viscosity Calculator https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html will give a good ballpark value, using gasoline 0.4 cSt KV100.) If you were using an oil that started at KV100 = 11.7 (Shell Rotella Gas Truck) instead of Motorcraft or other thinner 5w30 oils, you would have still been in the 5w30 visc range at least.
VOA's of this lube show high (14.x%) Noack, indicating low visc bases and likely a healthy dose of VII. So I'd wager visc loss from shear is a reality with this lubricant and likely outweighs oxidation, which, coupled with the fuel dilution, is why we are seeing such an impact on KV.
Given where FP currently resides, I'm of the opinion that your 6% figure seems a bit high and the ~4-5% figured noted by another poster seems a bit more reasonable.
That KV100 is low enough (delta -2.4 cSt from new oil) to indicate maybe 6% or so fuel dilution. Some due to VII permanent shear, yet oxidation raises cSt, probably cancelling the VII shear part. (Widman Viscosity Calculator https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html will give a good ballpark value, using gasoline 0.4 cSt KV100.) If you were using an oil that started at KV100 = 11.7 (Shell Rotella Gas Truck) instead of Motorcraft or other thinner 5w30 oils, you would have still been in the 5w30 visc range at least.
VOA's of this lube show high (14.x%) Noack, indicating low visc bases and likely a healthy dose of VII. So I'd wager visc loss from shear is a reality with this lubricant and likely outweighs oxidation, which, coupled with the fuel dilution, is why we are seeing such an impact on KV.
Given where FP currently resides, I'm of the opinion that your 6% figure seems a bit high and the ~4-5% figured noted by another poster seems a bit more reasonable.
OP - use a lab that actually measures fuel dilution via gas chromotagraphy (GC) if you want to get a real fuel dilution reading.
Blackstone doesn't measure it - they guess and are usually way off as someone noted above. In today's world of direct injection, regens with added fuel, etc., fuel dilution is an issue and Blackstone needs to get its act together and stop misleading customers IMHO (I've been there).
Blackstone doesn't measure it - they guess and are usually way off as someone noted above. In today's world of direct injection, regens with added fuel, etc., fuel dilution is an issue and Blackstone needs to get its act together and stop misleading customers IMHO (I've been there).
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M1 holds up on the 2.7 for about 8k i would think the 3.5 would make it just as long. also didnt get below 9 on those runs. but the TBN was getting low.
While we don't have a 3.5 EB we do have a 2.3 EB Explorer. If I'm lucky my three UOA's are attached. They show that the Motorcraft 5W-30 sheared the most in the fewest miles compared to Mobil 1 5W-30, 4,275 miles for the Motorcraft vs 7,000 & 6,200 miles for the Mobil 1 5W-30. Though I have to say your iron and silicon do look high(ish). As others mentioned perhaps there is an air intake passage leak. I would not be surprised if when having the dealer do the oil change they opened the air box to "inspect" the air filter and didn't reposition it correctly. As other's have said check the air intake passage way for potential leaks. I'm not impressed with the longevity of the viscosity of the Motorcraft 5W-30, especially when my iOLM continuously counts down to 10,000 mile OCI's, no matter the the season or manner of driving. With the turbo and DI I feel more comfortable using a synthetic oil considering we keep our vehicles for a VERY long time and mileage.
Whimsey
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Originally Posted by claluja
OP - use a lab that actually measures fuel dilution via gas chromotagraphy (GC) if you want to get a real fuel dilution reading.
Blackstone doesn't measure it - they guess and are usually way off as someone noted above. In today's world of direct injection, regens with added fuel, etc., fuel dilution is an issue and Blackstone needs to get its act together and stop misleading customers IMHO (I've been there).
Well this sort of sucks because I just bought a bulk kit from them. What labs would you recommend in the US?
OP - use a lab that actually measures fuel dilution via gas chromotagraphy (GC) if you want to get a real fuel dilution reading.
Blackstone doesn't measure it - they guess and are usually way off as someone noted above. In today's world of direct injection, regens with added fuel, etc., fuel dilution is an issue and Blackstone needs to get its act together and stop misleading customers IMHO (I've been there).
Well this sort of sucks because I just bought a bulk kit from them. What labs would you recommend in the US?
We use Testoil for our emergency engines at work with me running in house for verification. We've had great results with them.
I'd test a few more samples before panicking about anything. You started that sample at 10,000 miles, which is still within the break-in period (IMO). If this sample was after the 20,000 mile mark (from start), then I'd definitely try another oil.
dnewton3
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1) don't panic yet
2) use up the test kits you have; no sense in throwing them out as the other data is still fine
I suspect there's a mix of both fuel concerns and break in. How many OCIs have you had so far? Is this only the 3rd?
If the Si does not come down in the next UOA, then there's a definite contributor there. If it does come down, it has a long way to go from where it's at currently. Let's just hope it's a lot of curing seals.
Anyone know what fuel assessment method Wix UOA kit uses?
2) use up the test kits you have; no sense in throwing them out as the other data is still fine
I suspect there's a mix of both fuel concerns and break in. How many OCIs have you had so far? Is this only the 3rd?
If the Si does not come down in the next UOA, then there's a definite contributor there. If it does come down, it has a long way to go from where it's at currently. Let's just hope it's a lot of curing seals.
Anyone know what fuel assessment method Wix UOA kit uses?
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5000 mile OCI, and even that is too long on an EB. I have a 2011 3.5EB F150 and I choose 5000 mile intervals. Experience shows that 4000 is about the real limit of the oil and fuel dilution.
I'd not stress too much on the oil choice and pay more attention to how long you use it. The 3.5 will last forever with good maintenance practices. However, many owners have timing chain problems before 100K if extended drain intervals are chosen.
Even so, I get the best results with M1, 10W-30 EP. Iron took a while to come down.
It's good to remember that fuel dilution is a moving target. As much of it can/will evaporate when the oil gets hot enough. Over time, what's left behind of the fuel is NOT OIL, but a sludge of evaporated fuel byproducts. Your dipstick may never read low, but the oil may be quite diluted with non oil components.
This leads to an oil that fails to meet test criteria, as you've noticed.
EDIT: Your engine is just fine.
I'd not stress too much on the oil choice and pay more attention to how long you use it. The 3.5 will last forever with good maintenance practices. However, many owners have timing chain problems before 100K if extended drain intervals are chosen.
Even so, I get the best results with M1, 10W-30 EP. Iron took a while to come down.
It's good to remember that fuel dilution is a moving target. As much of it can/will evaporate when the oil gets hot enough. Over time, what's left behind of the fuel is NOT OIL, but a sludge of evaporated fuel byproducts. Your dipstick may never read low, but the oil may be quite diluted with non oil components.
This leads to an oil that fails to meet test criteria, as you've noticed.
EDIT: Your engine is just fine.
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