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'09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain #5007412
02/10/19 08:28 PM
02/10/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,964
northern Alabama
benjamming Offline OP
benjamming  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,964
northern Alabama
2009 Acura TSX with 75k miles purchased from only other owner. Issue was deemed (by Acura dealership) to be a stretched timing chain. Engine would turn over but not start. Coworker didn't want to deal with it so sold at quite a low price. Changed timing chain, tensioner, guides, and VTEC actuator with genuine Honda parts.

Now the engine starts and runs ok (initially) but has a tap or tick that sounds like its on the exhaust side of cylinder 3. It sounds & feels like an exhaust pipe. Also, cylinder 3 has 50-70 psi lower compression that 1, 2, or 4. It is still in spec (~130 psi). It runs & drives ok for a few miles with no CEL. Then the CEL comes on & sometimes is accompanied by a "check emissions" warning. After a few more miles, the CEL begins blinking and it goes into what appears to be limp mode, i.e. low power & will not go > 3000 rpm. The only code is for cylinder 3 misfire. Even when it's running badly, the #3 coil can be disconnected, & it makes a difference so it is actually firing.

Also noticed that when the oil filler cap is removed there is a lot of pressure.

Any thoughts - bad valve, piston, rings? Two issues? What causes higher crankcase pressure like that?

Thanks.

Last edited by wwillson; 02/11/19 02:54 PM. Reason: subject clarification
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007423
02/10/19 08:41 PM
02/10/19 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 922
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 922
missouri
Possible valve kissed the piston and damage occurred. Maybe a cheap harbor freight bore scope can see in there and confirm.

I hope you bought very cheap. May need an engine or at least a rebuild.

Rod

Last edited by ragtoplvr; 02/10/19 08:42 PM.
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007443
02/10/19 09:07 PM
02/10/19 09:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,731
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,731
Fort Worth, Texas
Adjust the valve clearance's to spec, Perform Cam-Crank Correlation procedure via a capable scan tool.....Hail Mary attempt but it may fix the issue.
I would suggest a leak-down test after running the overhead, But few have a leak-down tester?


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007448
02/10/19 09:10 PM
02/10/19 09:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 175
MN
Tman220 Offline
Tman220  Offline

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 175
MN
Was the head pulled? Valves checked? My money is on a bent valve. I would perform a leak down test on your weak cylinder and you will find out pretty quickly where that compression went.


2012 Regal GS Turbo PP 5w30
1994 Camaro Z28 LT1 355 CI, 430 RWHP PP 5W30
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007469
02/10/19 09:37 PM
02/10/19 09:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,984
FL, USA
gregk24 Offline
gregk24  Offline

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,984
FL, USA
That is awfully low mileage for the chain to stretch, do you know what caused it?


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
56,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
44,xxx miles
Castrol OEM dealer fill / OEM filter
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: gregk24] #5007509
02/10/19 10:39 PM
02/10/19 10:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,731
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,731
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted by gregk24
That is awfully low mileage for the chain to stretch, do you know what caused it?


Lack of maintenance? I've done more K24 timing chains than any other Japanese engine with the Toyota 1GR-FE being second. Japanese makes being immune to timing chain stretch/wear is a myth......Not surprising given that owners will sweep it under the rug vs screaming from the hill tops on a Domestic & European make.

I don't see many internet complaints on 2AZ-FE head gaskets/Cylinder block threads pulling out......Anything to save face!

Last edited by clinebarger; 02/10/19 10:39 PM.

2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007549
02/11/19 12:20 AM
02/11/19 12:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,493
Phoenix
dishdude Offline
dishdude  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,493
Phoenix
My money is on a bent valve as well. Timing chain issues aren't unheard of with this engine, but the jury is out on if the VTC actuator is the cause or not.


2018 Challenger SRT 392 PUP 0w-40 Wix 57899XP
2018 GTI
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007637
02/11/19 07:08 AM
02/11/19 07:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 13
FL
Kozman011 Offline
Kozman011  Offline

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 13
FL
Sorry I can't help with the issue, but my 06' Acura has 225K on it and it runs like the day I bought it. The only thing i put in it is new oil and alternators. Lack of maintenance is the most likely culprit with your stretched chain. The timing chain in these things love nice, clean oil. Never paid attention to the OLM since day one. New synthetic every 4-5K. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007676
02/11/19 08:01 AM
02/11/19 08:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 922
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 922
missouri
The thing that really scared me is the high crankcase pressure. Bent valves do not cause high crankcase pressure.

only massive blowby. That is not a good sign. This is why I suggested a cheap harbor freight bore scope
Or just pull the heads, shame to waste all the parts though.
Rod

Last edited by ragtoplvr; 02/11/19 08:02 AM.
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007699
02/11/19 08:23 AM
02/11/19 08:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,002
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,002
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by benjamming
2009 Acura TSX with 75k miles purchased from only other owner. Issue was deemed (by Acura dealership) to be a stretched timing chain. Engine would turn over but not start. Coworker didn't want to deal with it so sold at quite a low price. Changed timing chain, tensioner, guides, and VTEC actuator with genuine Honda parts.

Now the engine starts and runs ok (initially) but has a tap or tick that sounds like its on the exhaust side of cylinder 3. It sounds & feels like an exhaust pipe. Also, cylinder 3 has 50-70 psi lower compression that 1, 2, or 4. It is still in spec (~130 psi). It runs & drives ok for a few miles with no CEL. Then the CEL comes on & sometimes is accompanied by a "check emissions" warning. After a few more miles, the CEL begins blinking and it goes into what appears to be limp mode, i.e. low power & will not go > 3000 rpm. The only code is for cylinder 3 misfire. Even when it's running badly, the #3 coil can be disconnected, & it makes a difference so it is actually firing.

Also noticed that when the oil filler cap is removed there is a lot of pressure.

Any thoughts - bad valve, piston, rings? Two issues? What causes higher crankcase pressure like that?

Thanks.



Check the spool valve and filter and related components. I know little about this particular engine buy have seen bad spool valves on the V6 cause similar problems.
The spool valves from Standard were reboxed OE (the last one I bought for a V6) I don't know if they still are but they are priced right.

Edit: Rock has spool valve and filter for this one.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8479932&cc=1442648&jsn=373

Last edited by Trav; 02/11/19 08:26 AM.

ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: dishdude] #5007703
02/11/19 08:26 AM
02/11/19 08:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,256
New England
madRiver Online content
madRiver  Online Content

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,256
New England
Originally Posted by dishdude
My money is on a bent valve as well. Timing chain issues aren't unheard of with this engine, but the jury is out on if the VTC actuator is the cause or not.


My indy mechanic gets a few where owners decide to overstretch the oil changes to the 7.5k - 10k level and the chain gets ruined. He has done a few K24 engines over

Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: madRiver] #5007855
02/11/19 10:59 AM
02/11/19 10:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline
mattd  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
I would say there is piston damage if there is that much pressure out of the oil cap. First thing i would do is a cylinder leakage test to confirm or a boroscope down the plug hole.


2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007982
02/11/19 12:43 PM
02/11/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,293
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,293
pa
this is like reading a book, looking for the ending-solution

Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5007991
02/11/19 12:58 PM
02/11/19 12:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
Huntsville, AL
AH64 Offline
AH64  Offline

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
Huntsville, AL
I'm the subject TSX owner. I have borescoped and saw no obvious damage to the piston. I would like to try a leak-down test but do not have the equipment. I assumed it was a valve but the crankcase pressure has me worried.

Re: '09 TSX Engine Issue Limp Mode Timing Chain [Re: benjamming] #5008063
02/11/19 02:32 PM
02/11/19 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 922
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 922
missouri
You can do a leak down test of limited merit, take a sued correct size plug and break out all the ceramic. Then epoxy in a hose fitting of some appropriate size and pressurize the offending cylinder with at least 50 psi air. If you have air escaping out the oil fill port, then you have some sort of ring seal problem on that cylinder. For a reality test you can compare to one of the good cylinders. You can listen at the intake and tail pipe for air escaping, that confirms the diagnosis.

This does not give you any number so it is subjective. Nothing wrong with that, just some folks demand a number of some sort.

Rod

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