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Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: jimbrewer] #4996441
01/31/19 12:41 AM
01/31/19 12:41 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by jimbrewer

3. Oil does not degrade in a linear way. Even the “cheap insurance “ argument doesn’t hold water.

"Cheap insurance" isn't even all that cheap any more. Back when I started changing my own oil, a typical brand name motor oil like Pennzoil yellow bottle was around $1/quart at an auto parts store. Now today the equivalent is more than $4 depending on where, although 5 quart jugs are more common than they were in the early 90s. It's definitely the case that the price has outpaced inflation. But for that price I'd hope it's better and can last longer.

Certainly a lot of discussion here has been that engines are far better at avoiding contaminating the oil. And the oil is obviously asked to do more in certain ways - especially modern thin oil. But I don't know of any carmakers recommending going longer intervals with newer oil, although some have backdated thinner oil to older models.

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: y_p_w] #4996469
01/31/19 01:26 AM
01/31/19 01:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,562
Cali
Malo83 Offline
Malo83  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,562
Cali
Sticking with the 3K oil changes on my 83 Silverado, lot of short trips. cheers

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: y_p_w] #4996687
01/31/19 09:40 AM
01/31/19 09:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,977
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,977
NH
Originally Posted by WobblyElvis
By the 70's most North American cars manufacturers recommended a 6 - 7,500 mile OCIs.

Were the engines in the 70's really ok with 6-7k OCI with conventional oil? Still had lead in gas (the pumps were around, and once you gutted the cat you were all set), carbs and old school motors.

Originally Posted by y_p_w

"Cheap insurance" isn't even all that cheap any more. Back when I started changing my own oil, a typical brand name motor oil like Pennzoil yellow bottle was around $1/quart at an auto parts store. Now today the equivalent is more than $4 depending on where, although 5 quart jugs are more common than they were in the early 90s. It's definitely the case that the price has outpaced inflation. But for that price I'd hope it's better and can last longer.

When did you start changing oil? Curious.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
2019: $4.00 This becomes:
2010: $3.47
2000: $2.74
1990: $2.08
1980: $1.31
1970: $0.62
1960: $0.47

So if you could buy oil for $1/qt in 1990 then yes, motor oil has outpaced inflation (although arguably the oil is "better" today and can do longer OCI's).

I'm starting to do more 5k OCI's. My '99 Camry was reputed to be "hard on oil" and none of my fleet is all that young these days. Cheap Supertech oil and rotate the tires at the same time. The vehicles that seem to come up with the most miles on here were taxis run on cheap bulk with "frequent" changes, although we don't know if they'd have gone just as far with "long" OCI going by just that observation.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 152k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 208k, his
Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4996699
01/31/19 09:55 AM
01/31/19 09:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,457
The Old North State
Sayjac Offline
Sayjac  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 13,457
The Old North State
When I first joined this site a very common saying was 5k miles is the new 3k mile oci, even with conventional. Generally speaking I've heeded that as minimum oci. Also, now using mostly using closed out and rebated synthetic oil, all the more reason to go 5k+ miles. I will say reading some comments recently, seems like for some 3k miles even using synthetic oil is the norm or viewed as ok. I have no intention of following that practice.

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: supton] #4996826
01/31/19 11:28 AM
01/31/19 11:28 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by WobblyElvis
By the 70's most North American cars manufacturers recommended a 6 - 7,500 mile OCIs.

Were the engines in the 70's really ok with 6-7k OCI with conventional oil? Still had lead in gas (the pumps were around, and once you gutted the cat you were all set), carbs and old school motors.

Originally Posted by y_p_w

"Cheap insurance" isn't even all that cheap any more. Back when I started changing my own oil, a typical brand name motor oil like Pennzoil yellow bottle was around $1/quart at an auto parts store. Now today the equivalent is more than $4 depending on where, although 5 quart jugs are more common than they were in the early 90s. It's definitely the case that the price has outpaced inflation. But for that price I'd hope it's better and can last longer.

When did you start changing oil? Curious.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
2019: $4.00 This becomes:
2010: $3.47
2000: $2.74
1990: $2.08
1980: $1.31
1970: $0.62
1960: $0.47

So if you could buy oil for $1/qt in 1990 then yes, motor oil has outpaced inflation (although arguably the oil is "better" today and can do longer OCI's).

I'm starting to do more 5k OCI's. My '99 Camry was reputed to be "hard on oil" and none of my fleet is all that young these days. Cheap Supertech oil and rotate the tires at the same time. The vehicles that seem to come up with the most miles on here were taxis run on cheap bulk with "frequent" changes, although we don't know if they'd have gone just as far with "long" OCI going by just that observation.

Might have been around 1992 that I attempted my first oil change. I had my first car in 1995 and the oil was never changed by anyone but myself.

Of course a lot of pricing was extremely variable depending on where you got it. But even around 1995 one could typically find a reputable "conventional" oil brand such as Pennzoil yellow bottle for less than $1. For some reason Chevron Supreme was the low price leader. A friend claimed that since it was so cheap they must cut corners somewhere. I said it was probably because they didn't spend money marketing it like Pennzoil or Castrol.

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4996829
01/31/19 11:30 AM
01/31/19 11:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,964
San Rafael, CA
dogememe Offline
dogememe  Offline

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,964
San Rafael, CA
Even my 95 Chevy calls for 7500 mile oil changes lol


2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~98K Miles
Valvoline 5W-20 from Valvoline Instant Oil Change.
Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: Donald] #4996884
01/31/19 12:18 PM
01/31/19 12:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,188
WA
Brigadier Offline
Brigadier  Offline

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,188
WA
Originally Posted by Donald
I will bet Jiffy Lube still says 3000 OCI.

Then you lose that bet. Pay up.


2017 Hyundai Santa Fe SE, 3.3L, AWD, QSUD 5w30, OEM filter, Hy-per Lube ZRA

https://www.pure-gas.org/ << Wake up your engine!!

Where the stars and stripes and the eagle fly
Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4997102
01/31/19 02:55 PM
01/31/19 02:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 149
Arizona
DweezilAZ Offline
DweezilAZ  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 149
Arizona
Ford was using 6000 mile oil change intervals in the 60s.

Random R&T tests from 1969: Volvo 164, BMW 2500 and newly introduced Maverick: 6000 miles.

R&T 1981: Renault 18i 4000 miles, Dodge Aries, 7500

Car [UK] 1973 : Fiat 132, Fiat 128, 6000

1965 Lincoln owner's manual : 6000 miles

63 Valiant, 4000

65 Chevrolet 6000

78 Malibu, full size Chevrolet, 84 Ford Tempo 7500

AMC 1967 4000, 71 Gremlin, 6000.

I don't know if that was optimistic marketing, but oil change intervals every 6 months or 6000 miles have been around a long time.

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4997327
01/31/19 06:07 PM
01/31/19 06:07 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
The whole 3000 miles under any conditions has really been more a marketing thing. A shop that I otherwise trust has recommended 3000 miles for a long time as "cheap insurance". Jiffy Lube, car dealers, and motor oil manufacturers have been touting 3000 miles for a while. I guess the oddest recommendation was when Mobil was selling different motor oils as 5000/7500/etc motor oils with a "warranty". But if you read the fine print they were saying that they would warranty it for 5000 mile oil changes under any conditions, and that their engine warranty would be valid if the manufacturer's recommendations were followed for "normal" driving conditions or when recommended by an OLM.

7500 miles for "normal" service was the recommendation since at least the 80s for most cars.

I remember stuff like a Pennzoil commercial showing a large pickup truck being used as a spotting vehicle for wide loads. The owners claimed that they had it last due to 3000 mile oil changes for hundreds of thousands of miles. But under those conditions where they're operating it all day with few start stop cycles and not a lot of hard acceleration, it's actually pretty easy on the motor oil.

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4997393
01/31/19 07:01 PM
01/31/19 07:01 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 704
Florida
SilverSnake Offline
SilverSnake  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 704
Florida
I change the oil in everything (except the whole house generator) every 6 months or 5K miles whichever comes first. For the Jeep and BMW, that is between 4K-5K miles. For the Scat Pack it is about 1K miles. Don't subscribe to the theory that early oil changes harm your engine. Don't believe in saving pennies on oil with my expensive machinery. 89 cars and trucks in the last 50 years. Never an oil related engine problem of any kind.


2016 Charger, 6.4L-485 HP (PUP 0W-40)
2017 BMW 330i, 2L-248 HP (BMW 0W-20)
2018 Jeep GC, 5.7L-360 HP (PUP 5W-20)
2008 20KW Generac (Amsoil 10W-30/30)
Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4997410
01/31/19 07:17 PM
01/31/19 07:17 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
Well - I recall that part of the premise of early oil changes was that various abrasive particles such as metal shavings and dirt getting past the air filter and rings would create faster wear. Changing oil more often was supposed to reduce the average level of these abrasive particles. I think these days any engine designer or engine testing lab would say it's not an issue with modern engines and lubricants, as well as good filtration.

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4997435
01/31/19 07:40 PM
01/31/19 07:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 442
Atlanta, GA
pezzy669 Offline
pezzy669  Offline

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 442
Atlanta, GA
My '10 Mazda3 GT 2.5 was the most rigid when it came to service - I fell in the severe category (3 months or 3750 miles) based on the owners manual so I had fresh dino 5W20 every 3750 miles. Mazda did not change their owners manual when they started requiring 0W-20 synthetic the very next year - bet they make a killing on that even to this day.

When I went from my '99 Neon (3750 intervals that I took in every 3k) to my '03 Golf TDI (1 year or 10k miles) it honestly felt weird going that long between changes but I adapted and the 1 year/10k is a new norm for me as that is what my Mercedes and all my previous Volkswagen's called for. Makes it extremely easy to remember when to get an oil change.


2012 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 66k
2011 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 46k
Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4997810
02/01/19 06:11 AM
02/01/19 06:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,308
oh
roadrunner1 Offline
roadrunner1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,308
oh
I have an original shop manual for my '49 F1. I was going through the manual and came across Fords original OCI for the flathead V8 in '49, 2,000 mi., and 4,000-5,000 mi. for the filter.
I don't know when manufacturers went from 2,000 mi. to 3,000 mi., but guessing sometime during the 50's, and then to 5,000 mi. during the 60's.


'15 F350 6.7
Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4998694
02/01/19 06:01 PM
02/01/19 06:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,544
New York City
SeaJay Offline
SeaJay  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,544
New York City
Doctor's used to advertise cigarette smoking as good for you back a long time ago

Now they know better. Unless you take your car to the local dirt racing track and beat the heck out if it every weekend, 6,000 oci is likely all that is needed.

Unless you are an obsessed bitog member. In that case change it once a month, or less. And keep telling us that it is cheap insurance.

Re: What happened to the 3,000 Mile OCI? [Re: sloinker] #4998994
02/01/19 11:39 PM
02/01/19 11:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,775
Maricopa Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,775
Maricopa Arizona
Originally Posted by sloinker
Not many years ago the recommended maintenance interval for many vehicles and touted by oil change businesses was 3 months 3000 miles. In a few short years we are seeing factory intervals of 10k miles and one year. Is the oil that much better? Is the engineering of engines better? Combination of both? How about with direct injected gasoline engines? Are we heading back towards shorter OCI's? I even see in Europe some intervals of 30000 kilometers. I do notice that on my newer vehicles the oil capacity is almost uniformly 6 liters as opposed to the 4- 5 quarts with filter from a few years back. Will we see a time the engine oil becomes like the transmission fluid and becomes "Lifetime" fluid?



When was this? I had two vehicles manufactured in 1989 and the recommended OCI was 5K miles.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
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