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2015 3.5EB 35k mi; 6.1k on PP 5w30 #4957051 12/20/18 03:17 PM
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Impatient Offline OP
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Not what I had hoped for. This is my first UOA on this vehicle, and first with Polaris / Oil analyzers / Amsoil. Was bracing myself on iron, copper, fuel, and visc, based on other EB’s, but the lead was a shocker. This was Plat pure plus 5w30, and judging from the Ca & Mg, it was D1G2...at least the 5 qt jug. Maybe the extra qt was older, or maybe there was residual oil from previous fill ( 5 qt PPUP, and 1 qt PPPP ). Any chance the lead is just a harmless anomaly? If main bearings, wouldn’t there be other metals? Timing chain?

What would you do? Chill or panic?

Driving style: this is my long distance travel camper. So it gets long blasts of highway driving, with short drives while at destinations, often on dirt forest roads. I don’t flog it, and don’t tow, it’s not overweight. This fill involved Oregon to Texas, with a number of stops along the way, then sitting for few weeks, then TX to UT/AZ, then the long drive back to TX, then sitting for a few weeks. Sample was from drain plug, mid drain. Warmed van up with easy 8 mi city street drive before drain.

35k on van, 6.1k on the fill...all changes have been in the 6k to 7k range. Initially using Motorcraft 5w30 blend (except dealer changes were ALWAYS suspect, seriously; one reason I changed to quickielube places, with oil & filter I brought), then the PPUP at ~23k fill, then this PPPP at ~29k. Van sat a lot for several months before first Pennzoil fill. No additives ever (that I know of). Motorcraft 500 filter in all cases.


1A48547C-2F39-4019-B888-F335D5443DEE.png
Last edited by dnewton3; 12/21/18 07:35 AM. Reason: title updated

15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957076 12/20/18 03:43 PM
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Propflux01 Offline
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I’m thinking if you take care of your apparent fuel issue, the excessive lead will go away.


2014 Hyundai Elantra
2014 Hyundai Elantra GT

A 55 Gallon Drum And A Shovel Can Solve A lot of Life's Little "Problems"
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Propflux01] #4957084 12/20/18 03:49 PM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Propflux01
I’m thinking if you take care of your apparent fuel issue, the excessive lead will go away.


That would certainly be a step in the right direction.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957099 12/20/18 04:10 PM
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How? New fuel pump? What would make a new pump any better than the one I have? Do you think a dealer will listen? Originally I intended to send this sample to Blackstone, but became convinced a Gas Chromatography analyzer would provide a more realistic picture; I had no indication of trouble, I just wanted a snapshot while the engine was relatively young. If you compare my fuel readings with others from a GC analysis, they aren’t that out of line. Allegedly Blackstone would show lower fuel (from same sample). However, Lead is at a level I am not seeing from other EB UOA’s, or any UOA’s.


15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957119 12/20/18 04:44 PM
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demarpaint Offline
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It looks like the excess fuel knocked the viscosity of the oil down a grade. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

Maybe one of our resident experts will weigh in, but I'd say either have the injectors checked out or bump a grade up to either a 0W40 or a 5W40.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957120 12/20/18 04:44 PM
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claluja Offline
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Fuel seems to be about the norm for EBs, so no reason for concern there - just keep in mind that probably shouldn't extend OCI much longer. My goal is to keep fuel under 5%.

No clue here on the lead. I'd try to chill, and wait to see if high Pb shows up again next time.

As suggested above, would it be possible to try a 40 weight to hedge against what appears to be inevitable fuel dilution induced viscosity drops?

Last edited by claluja; 12/20/18 04:54 PM.

2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: claluja] #4957130 12/20/18 04:57 PM
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Claluga, it’s your fault I went to OA instead of Blackstone. 🙂. If I’d gone to Blackstone, people would have to blame the lead on something else😐. I’m trying to find any other UOA with lead that high. Only found one...a beater Jeep with a motor out of a junkyard; actually, it’s lead was 10x mine. I’ll keep looking, but I’m just not seeing any in the 30’s range...all I’ve seen are single digit, except mine and that beater Jeep. One post I read said lead isn’t even used in main bearings anymore. So where is it coming from?


15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957137 12/20/18 05:04 PM
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2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957158 12/20/18 05:26 PM
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Whimsey Offline
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I thought Ford engines don't have lead components that show up in wear, like from crank shaft bearings or journals, as many older or non Ford engines have. That seems odd for a Ford engine to to have such a high level of lead as a wear metal in the UOA. Did you use some oil or fuel additive for this OCI period that may have lead in it? None of my Modular engines or the 2.3 EB engines show anything but VERY small amounts of lead in their UOA's.

Whimsey

Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957160 12/20/18 05:27 PM
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dkryan Offline
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Impatient,

I had a 2001 Infiniti I30 that had a similar issue. As in the non-turbo’d engine beat the heck out of the oil. If I recall correctly, my fuel dilution number was in the mid-20s and my lead number had spiked alarmingly.

The initial and subsequent UOAs were performed by Blackstone. I believe they use an “open cup” method for testing for fuel dilution, which I understand is not as accurate as using the “closed cup” method. “Not as accurate” meaning an open cup measurement would reflect lower fuel dilution than a closed cup test. So who knows what my fuel dilution really was?

I did not drive the car like I had stolen it and short trips were minimal. The fuel injectors were not leaking, as Blackstone had suspected. In fact, I don’t believe I ever really determined the cause of the fuel dilution.

I do recall that number trending downward over the next few UOAs, both the fuel dilute and the lead reading.

I do know I used “green GC,” as in German Castrol, from that point onward, either 5w- or 10w-30. I know when I joined BITOG in 2003, green GC was all the rage on this board. The subsequent UOAs showed it was the only oil that handled that seemingly mild engine without getting thrashed.

While that car was sold to a friend in Atlanta, I will see if I have any saved .pdfs of those UOAs.

I know this likely has not been much help, but I’ll close with this: the last time I spoke with my car buying friend in Atlanta, the car had well over 200,000 miles on the engine.


2014 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL
Shell T/SUV 5w-30/Fram Ultra

2005 Toyota Highlander 3.3L
Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30/Fram Ultra filter

2019 Subaru Outback 2.5L Limited
Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20/Wix XP filter

Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957173 12/20/18 05:47 PM
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tcp71 Offline
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I wouldn't get too excited about the lead reading but would have it checked again at the next oil change just to see if it's an anomaly, error or real issue. In any case, my 3.5 eco uses castrol 0w40 exclusively. I have no gas smell in the oil and change it religiously every 5k miles (maximum).


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: mobil 0w40 (varies)
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957367 12/20/18 09:34 PM
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double vanos Offline
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Right on tcp71! My early build f150 EB got put on Edge 0w40 after obliterating every 5w30 I put in it. It’s at 124k now and doing just fine. My wife’s ‘17 EB in her Expedition gets Magnatec 5w30 because that engine has had several revisions and the things that plagued the earlier models have dealt with. That plus KJ Smith has posted stellar UOAs using it in his EB engines.


Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957583 12/21/18 07:43 AM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Panic or Chill?
How about we end up in the middle ... Cautionary concern.

I doubt you have more of this used oil setting around. I recommend when you take a sample, always take two and set one aside so you can send it in as a confirmation for times like this.

Regarding the Pb, there was a time when Ford was using Al bearings for many applications; cam journals in the mod motors IIRC. But the 3.5EB engine may have more traditional babbitt bearings; I cannot say one way or another.

All you can really do at this point is continue to monitor the condition; it's not like Ford is going to agree to tear into this engine for a diagnosis. If you continue to UOA with your OCIs, and then work with your local dealer, you might (maybe?) get some relief should a future issue develop shortly after the warranty expires.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4957777 12/21/18 11:33 AM
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badtlc Offline
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Originally Posted by Impatient
How? New fuel pump? What would make a new pump any better than the one I have? Do you think a dealer will listen? Originally I intended to send this sample to Blackstone, but became convinced a Gas Chromatography analyzer would provide a more realistic picture; I had no indication of trouble, I just wanted a snapshot while the engine was relatively young. If you compare my fuel readings with others from a GC analysis, they aren’t that out of line. Allegedly Blackstone would show lower fuel (from same sample). However, Lead is at a level I am not seeing from other EB UOA’s, or any UOA’s.


Likely the only fix is to run 91+ octane.


2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX, M1 AFE 0W20, Fram TG, 167k
2015 Chrysler T&C, 95k+, M1 5W30, Wix OF
2018 Forester Premium 8k+, Subaru 0W20, Blue Subie OF
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: badtlc] #4958049 12/21/18 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc
Originally Posted by Impatient
How? New fuel pump? What would make a new pump any better than the one I have? Do you think a dealer will listen? Originally I intended to send this sample to Blackstone, but became convinced a Gas Chromatography analyzer would provide a more realistic picture; I had no indication of trouble, I just wanted a snapshot while the engine was relatively young. If you compare my fuel readings with others from a GC analysis, they aren’t that out of line. Allegedly Blackstone would show lower fuel (from same sample). However, Lead is at a level I am not seeing from other EB UOA’s, or any UOA’s.


Likely the only fix is to run 91+ octane.


How would premium fuel help fuel dilution or lead? I actually do bump up to mid-grade in some mountain states with 85 oct regular.


15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
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