This tank won't last long, and we can see what the esso 87 does....
Maybe E-10 is better? - PentaStar (Flex Fuel)
- Thread starter StevieC
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If I had the 2002 5.3 truck motor in my car I could try this stuff also once getting a scanner/obd port adaptor that can connect to my phone. I'm glad you're doing this stuff for us in the name of science. I'm sure tons of people appreciate it.
I'm 1/2 way through the tank now and no change to the timing (still 4 degrees advanced) or slight stumbling issue.
Will keep you posted when I fill up with Esso 87 tomorrow
Will keep you posted when I fill up with Esso 87 tomorrow
Is the 4 degrees advanced all the time or at idle? My car if I was to advance the base timing 4 degrees right now it will have a stumble at idle also, whether I run 91 or 87 octane. So it makes me wonder if the stumble is caused entirely by the timing?
How is the power and fuel mileage changed? Interested in timing change also cause that 4 degree advance at idle could be stumble. Also look at fuel trim to see if leaner with higher octane or richer as that could affect a slow 02 sensor which will cause your problem.
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OK I topped off at a quarter of a tank tonight after doing running around this afternoon and I refilled with Esso 87 and the stumble seems to be gone, timing has moved backward 3 degrees.
I have around 700km to drive in the next couple days so I'll keep it on Esso 87 and see what happens.
I have around 700km to drive in the next couple days so I'll keep it on Esso 87 and see what happens.
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Originally Posted by Shannow
It's not the water, unless StevieC somehow managed to get water into his first tank of E0, enough to overcome the residual ethanol...but then it should be in the bottom of the tank, not in the injectors....that's where the water goes when there's no co-solvent.
Well, any ethanol / water combination does settle to the bottom.... of a vehicle that isn't moving around. But it mixes up a little with the other fuel when the vehicle is driven, and even if it didn't. fuel pickup tube grabs fuel from the bottom of the tank. So it is going to get moved thru the fuel system one way or another.
It's not the water, unless StevieC somehow managed to get water into his first tank of E0, enough to overcome the residual ethanol...but then it should be in the bottom of the tank, not in the injectors....that's where the water goes when there's no co-solvent.
Well, any ethanol / water combination does settle to the bottom.... of a vehicle that isn't moving around. But it mixes up a little with the other fuel when the vehicle is driven, and even if it didn't. fuel pickup tube grabs fuel from the bottom of the tank. So it is going to get moved thru the fuel system one way or another.
Ok I'm far from home on customer tour to drop off nice bottles of Wine for Christmas and was able to drive it right to low fuel light. Refilled with Esso 87 octane on-top of the 87/91 Esso mix and previous to that Petro Canada. It's idling so smoothly it's hard to tell if it's running at all and there is absolutely no hot stumble.
We re-started it many times this afternoon after refilling with some of the visits we made and then again tonight after dinner.
Timing has been moved back the full 4 degrees as it was on Petro Canada regular 87.
So it has to be whatever Petro Canada has in their fuel because both are 87 octane with 10% ethanol (Verified with my scan-tool) and yet the 87 octane E-10 Esso corrects all the issues.
I'm going to continue running the Esso 87 E-10 until after Christmas to make sure but I think it's just Petro. If it still runs fine after Christmas on the Esso I'll try other brands like Shell / Sunoco etc.
Maybe the small amount of Methanol they put in the fuel for their "Winter Blend"? Not sure.
Interesting though...
We re-started it many times this afternoon after refilling with some of the visits we made and then again tonight after dinner.
Timing has been moved back the full 4 degrees as it was on Petro Canada regular 87.
So it has to be whatever Petro Canada has in their fuel because both are 87 octane with 10% ethanol (Verified with my scan-tool) and yet the 87 octane E-10 Esso corrects all the issues.
I'm going to continue running the Esso 87 E-10 until after Christmas to make sure but I think it's just Petro. If it still runs fine after Christmas on the Esso I'll try other brands like Shell / Sunoco etc.
Maybe the small amount of Methanol they put in the fuel for their "Winter Blend"? Not sure.
Interesting though...
On a side note I got wickedly good mileage out of the 87 Esso on the drive down. Normally I'll get just shy of 500km out of a tank in the winter and I had gotten that plus still had just shy of an 1/8th of a tank when I filled up with the low fuel light coming on and going off as I turned corners. Their Synergy fuel seems to be a good blend whatever is in it.
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Same here only on 89. I really didn't go the same test as last vehicle of 3 tanks regular then 3 tanks mid and finally 3 tanks super. I managed just 2 tanks midgrade then with fuel mileage under 19 mpg I decided to just burn regular. Idle is slick as glass with best if 22.5 as I type this. Will be tanking a trip Friday of over 300 miles so I should get my best mileage yet.
Still didn't think it was octane of fuel but interesting it happens with another Caravan of same year. The furthest I have gone on a tank was 360 miles on a little over 17 gallons and light wasn't on with mixed driving and not my best mileage. I hardly ever run under a guarter of a tank. I record all mileage to fuelly. Interesting is I haven't reset mpg average in 1500 miles and it showed 22 today.
Still didn't think it was octane of fuel but interesting it happens with another Caravan of same year. The furthest I have gone on a tank was 360 miles on a little over 17 gallons and light wasn't on with mixed driving and not my best mileage. I hardly ever run under a guarter of a tank. I record all mileage to fuelly. Interesting is I haven't reset mpg average in 1500 miles and it showed 22 today.
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Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by StevieC
We re If it still runs fine after Christmas on the Esso I'll try other brands like Shell / Sunoco etc.
You'll be driving to the US to find that Sunoco, don't forget they are no longer in Canada
What about trying out Costco fuel? The Costco in Stoney Creek probably isn't too far from you, and if you have an executive Costco membership you'll get 2% of that fuel purchase back too.
We re If it still runs fine after Christmas on the Esso I'll try other brands like Shell / Sunoco etc.
You'll be driving to the US to find that Sunoco, don't forget they are no longer in Canada
What about trying out Costco fuel? The Costco in Stoney Creek probably isn't too far from you, and if you have an executive Costco membership you'll get 2% of that fuel purchase back too.
Today I did about 12 hot restarts with varying times in between shut-down and re-start between a few minutes up to an hour and not a single stumble. It's definitely something in the Petro Canada gas and definitely the Octane being higher than 87.
Looking at my scan tool as well I can't see anything change between the Map sensor and 02 sensors or the injector pulse width between it stumbling and not stumbling among the other things I was looking at so it has to be the fuel not vaporizing the same or something.
I have a long drive back to home tomorrow and will be due for gas again so I will continue with the Esso 87 until the holidays are over and then try a different brand 87 other than Petro Canada to prove it's Petro's formulation doing it.
Originally Posted by tiger862
Same here only on 89. I really didn't go the same test as last vehicle of 3 tanks regular then 3 tanks mid and finally 3 tanks super. I managed just 2 tanks midgrade then with fuel mileage under 19 mpg I decided to just burn regular. Idle is slick as glass with best if 22.5 as I type this. Will be tanking a trip Friday of over 300 miles so I should get my best mileage yet.
Still didn't think it was octane of fuel but interesting it happens with another Caravan of same year. The furthest I have gone on a tank was 360 miles on a little over 17 gallons and light wasn't on with mixed driving and not my best mileage. I hardly ever run under a guarter of a tank. I record all mileage to fuelly. Interesting is I haven't reset mpg average in 1500 miles and it showed 22 today.
I noticed they changed the Map sensor part number in 2018 My dad has a 2012 and we have other model years in the family between the 2012 and my 2018. Maybe it has something to do with it....
Looking at my scan tool as well I can't see anything change between the Map sensor and 02 sensors or the injector pulse width between it stumbling and not stumbling among the other things I was looking at so it has to be the fuel not vaporizing the same or something.
I have a long drive back to home tomorrow and will be due for gas again so I will continue with the Esso 87 until the holidays are over and then try a different brand 87 other than Petro Canada to prove it's Petro's formulation doing it.
Originally Posted by tiger862
Same here only on 89. I really didn't go the same test as last vehicle of 3 tanks regular then 3 tanks mid and finally 3 tanks super. I managed just 2 tanks midgrade then with fuel mileage under 19 mpg I decided to just burn regular. Idle is slick as glass with best if 22.5 as I type this. Will be tanking a trip Friday of over 300 miles so I should get my best mileage yet.
Still didn't think it was octane of fuel but interesting it happens with another Caravan of same year. The furthest I have gone on a tank was 360 miles on a little over 17 gallons and light wasn't on with mixed driving and not my best mileage. I hardly ever run under a guarter of a tank. I record all mileage to fuelly. Interesting is I haven't reset mpg average in 1500 miles and it showed 22 today.
I noticed they changed the Map sensor part number in 2018 My dad has a 2012 and we have other model years in the family between the 2012 and my 2018. Maybe it has something to do with it....
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Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by StevieC
We re If it still runs fine after Christmas on the Esso I'll try other brands like Shell / Sunoco etc.
You'll be driving to the US to find that Sunoco, don't forget they are no longer in Canada
What about trying out Costco fuel? The Costco in Stoney Creek probably isn't too far from you, and if you have an executive Costco membership you'll get 2% of that fuel purchase back too.
Sunoco is at certain Petro Canada locations but only the Sunoco 94.
Originally Posted by StevieC
We re If it still runs fine after Christmas on the Esso I'll try other brands like Shell / Sunoco etc.
You'll be driving to the US to find that Sunoco, don't forget they are no longer in Canada
What about trying out Costco fuel? The Costco in Stoney Creek probably isn't too far from you, and if you have an executive Costco membership you'll get 2% of that fuel purchase back too.
Sunoco is at certain Petro Canada locations but only the Sunoco 94.
Doesn't matter.... Stumble came back. I'm thinking now it's the coolant temp sensor leaning out the mixture too far because of readings I'm getting versus my dad's van under the same conditions
So possibly no connection to the fuel used and just a coincidence when the symptoms came and went?
Yup looks like...
Don't worry, two months from now, you'll have accrued enough mileage to snap another camshaft and it'll be long out of warranty, and you'll be in the market again.
Check 02. Poor mileage and stumble are symptoms and yes I know you are under warranty but dealerships around here want a light or else it is normal.
Originally Posted by Garak
Don't worry, two months from now, you'll have accrued enough mileage to snap another camshaft and it'll be long out of warranty, and you'll be in the market again.
I got it in October and I have 13,000km on it already.
Originally Posted by tiger862
Check 02. Poor mileage and stumble are symptoms and yes I know you are under warranty but dealerships around here want a light or else it is normal.
Already tried that, 02s aren't the issue. Same readings as my dad's when I do a rich and lean test using propane and a vacuum leak.
OEM Temp sensor was $12 and map sensor was $20 so I ordered both to mess with to see if it's either. No MAF on this vehicle.
Don't worry, two months from now, you'll have accrued enough mileage to snap another camshaft and it'll be long out of warranty, and you'll be in the market again.
Originally Posted by tiger862
Check 02. Poor mileage and stumble are symptoms and yes I know you are under warranty but dealerships around here want a light or else it is normal.
Already tried that, 02s aren't the issue. Same readings as my dad's when I do a rich and lean test using propane and a vacuum leak.
OEM Temp sensor was $12 and map sensor was $20 so I ordered both to mess with to see if it's either. No MAF on this vehicle.
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I can't really get E0 around here, everything is E10... but my Caliber idled buttery smooth on E15 which is 88 octane, went back to 87 and it got that slightly rougher idle. Acceleration felt smoother as well and I got the same fuel mileage. I'll have to try E15 in my Pentastar.
As for brands, my v6 does not like the local chain called Family Express.
As for brands, my v6 does not like the local chain called Family Express.
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