The Cadillac problems have begun...
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Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
Lucky you, not the norm but there is always exceptions.
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
Lucky you, not the norm but there is always exceptions.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
Lucky you, not the norm but there is always exceptions.
So you're saying I should start playing the lottery?
I wouldn't call it the exception, more the norm. We have many happy owners on this forum and a few very vocal haters.
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
Lucky you, not the norm but there is always exceptions.
So you're saying I should start playing the lottery?
I wouldn't call it the exception, more the norm. We have many happy owners on this forum and a few very vocal haters.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
Lucky you, not the norm but there is always exceptions.
Never had as much as an oxygen sensor die on the Expedition. Wheel speed sensors were all original, MAF, ACT, ECT, TCT..etc. What was replaced were suspension bits, brakes, alternator, batteries, axle seal, rad and several coils as well as the launched spark plug for #4. The ABS controller died shortly before we decided to sell it.
My parent's Expedition (2000) has been similar. My dad's Town Car has needed a fuel pump (it sits when he's at his winter home).
That's actually generally been our experience with Ford vehicles, no real sensor issues, just general suspension and wear and tear stuff
We are new to Chrysler products, so we'll see where that goes. The oil pressure sensor on my Charger went under warranty. Durango had issues with the USB ports, but that was primarily due to the kids getting water and salt in them. The placement could be revisited. No issues on the Jeep thus far, touch wood.
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
Lucky you, not the norm but there is always exceptions.
Never had as much as an oxygen sensor die on the Expedition. Wheel speed sensors were all original, MAF, ACT, ECT, TCT..etc. What was replaced were suspension bits, brakes, alternator, batteries, axle seal, rad and several coils as well as the launched spark plug for #4. The ABS controller died shortly before we decided to sell it.
My parent's Expedition (2000) has been similar. My dad's Town Car has needed a fuel pump (it sits when he's at his winter home).
That's actually generally been our experience with Ford vehicles, no real sensor issues, just general suspension and wear and tear stuff
We are new to Chrysler products, so we'll see where that goes. The oil pressure sensor on my Charger went under warranty. Durango had issues with the USB ports, but that was primarily due to the kids getting water and salt in them. The placement could be revisited. No issues on the Jeep thus far, touch wood.
I did say "Not so much with Ford"
Originally Posted by StevieC
Secondly when you have fixed a ton of vehicles like I have along with my dad you will notice that certain problems appear over and over again and the "Domestics" need to get their quality control fixed on the sensor end.
LOL!
Secondly when you have fixed a ton of vehicles like I have along with my dad you will notice that certain problems appear over and over again and the "Domestics" need to get their quality control fixed on the sensor end.
LOL!
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I have never had any sensor failures on any of my GM vehicles either!!! As a matter of fact. My current vehicle, a 2012 Cruze has had one warranty repair in 7 years. Guess I just got lucky.
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I have never had any sensor failures on any of my GM vehicles either!!! As a matter of fact. My current vehicle, a 2012 Cruze has had one warranty repair in 7 years. Guess I just got lucky.
Originally Posted by DevilsRule
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I have never had any sensor failures on any of my GM vehicles either!!! As a matter of fact. My current vehicle, a 2012 Cruze has had one warranty repair in 7 years. Guess I just got lucky.
According to some, if we put our luck together we can win the Powerball!
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I have never had any sensor failures on any of my GM vehicles either!!! As a matter of fact. My current vehicle, a 2012 Cruze has had one warranty repair in 7 years. Guess I just got lucky.
According to some, if we put our luck together we can win the Powerball!
2 people out of thousands... Yeah that's a fair comparison. Believe what you want.
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I'm not surprised since you keep cars 2-3 years tops.
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I'm not surprised since you keep cars 2-3 years tops.
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I've been driving 20+ years and have only have had one sensor failure as well-- a steering wheel position sensor on an early 2000's Pontiac that made the stability control system act up.
Replaced an electronic throttle body (gear stripped) on a 2009 Dodge and an alternator on a Saturn. That's about the extent of electrical / electronic problems I've had on any vehicle, foreign or domestic.
I don't think a low rate of failure is the exception at all. Luck of the draw I suppose...
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I've been driving 20+ years and have only have had one sensor failure as well-- a steering wheel position sensor on an early 2000's Pontiac that made the stability control system act up.
Replaced an electronic throttle body (gear stripped) on a 2009 Dodge and an alternator on a Saturn. That's about the extent of electrical / electronic problems I've had on any vehicle, foreign or domestic.
I don't think a low rate of failure is the exception at all. Luck of the draw I suppose...
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Really? I have a 16 year old truck that I tow a 32 foot trailer with and 18 year old WS6 that will destroy both of those.
What exactly are you destroying?
I meant to quote someone it was more of joke, but I was talking about the Accord and Camry. I would like to see either of those take the abuse the WS6 does.
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Really? I have a 16 year old truck that I tow a 32 foot trailer with and 18 year old WS6 that will destroy both of those.
What exactly are you destroying?
I meant to quote someone it was more of joke, but I was talking about the Accord and Camry. I would like to see either of those take the abuse the WS6 does.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted by DevilsRule
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I have never had any sensor failures on any of my GM vehicles either!!! As a matter of fact. My current vehicle, a 2012 Cruze has had one warranty repair in 7 years. Guess I just got lucky.
I have had one 02 Sensor on the Trans Am as it runs a little rich with the tune I run and I have had the knock sensors on the truck fail because it sits all winter and the moisture kills them because they are under the intake.
The rest of my cars? 1 L98 Corvette, 3 LT1 cars (Z28s), 4 3800 cars (3 supercharged 1 N/A), 1 4.3 Blazer, 5 LSx cars, 1 2.8 CTS, 2 Equinoxs., and the current Malibu. Nothing
The 3800 cars all had over 200,000 miles on them when the left me. The Blazer had 230.000 when it left me. 98 Z28 low 12 second car 156,000 miles not one sensor. 1 Clutch and 1 rear end the cost of racing. It had something like 500 1/4 mile passes on it. The Cadillac we put 160,000 (it had the opel 2.8.) I did a water pump.
Guess what cars I owned that needed my sensors then all these combined. My wife's 02 Jetta TDI (you name it, it failed) and Camry (CPS and 02 Sensor) she had after that.
It happens sensors fail on everything. Heat, moisture and time kills them.
Originally Posted by dishdude
25 years of driving GM/Chrysler and easily logging 2 million miles and I've replaced one sensor, an upstream o2 in a Neon with 120k on it. Wasn't even OBD II
I have never had any sensor failures on any of my GM vehicles either!!! As a matter of fact. My current vehicle, a 2012 Cruze has had one warranty repair in 7 years. Guess I just got lucky.
I have had one 02 Sensor on the Trans Am as it runs a little rich with the tune I run and I have had the knock sensors on the truck fail because it sits all winter and the moisture kills them because they are under the intake.
The rest of my cars? 1 L98 Corvette, 3 LT1 cars (Z28s), 4 3800 cars (3 supercharged 1 N/A), 1 4.3 Blazer, 5 LSx cars, 1 2.8 CTS, 2 Equinoxs., and the current Malibu. Nothing
The 3800 cars all had over 200,000 miles on them when the left me. The Blazer had 230.000 when it left me. 98 Z28 low 12 second car 156,000 miles not one sensor. 1 Clutch and 1 rear end the cost of racing. It had something like 500 1/4 mile passes on it. The Cadillac we put 160,000 (it had the opel 2.8.) I did a water pump.
Guess what cars I owned that needed my sensors then all these combined. My wife's 02 Jetta TDI (you name it, it failed) and Camry (CPS and 02 Sensor) she had after that.
It happens sensors fail on everything. Heat, moisture and time kills them.
Well, I the parts are on the way. I have 2 crankshaft position sensors and a front engine mount on the way from Rockauto. The mount doesn't "have" to be removed to do the sensors, but since it's bad and it opens up a lot of room I'll do both at the same time.
$65 shipped to my door, for everything. Yea, I bought the CHEAP parts. The engine mount might have been a mistake to go cheap on, judging from past experience, but it was 1/6th the price of OEM.
I went with "Ultra Power" on the sensors, cheapest they had. Ultra Power is a parts wholesaler that buys excess inventory for resale. I've purchased their parts before, and I haven't been let down yet. There's a good chance that I'll get a Standard Products or MAYBE even an OEM sensor in the box, we'll see in a few days.
$65 shipped to my door, for everything. Yea, I bought the CHEAP parts. The engine mount might have been a mistake to go cheap on, judging from past experience, but it was 1/6th the price of OEM.
I went with "Ultra Power" on the sensors, cheapest they had. Ultra Power is a parts wholesaler that buys excess inventory for resale. I've purchased their parts before, and I haven't been let down yet. There's a good chance that I'll get a Standard Products or MAYBE even an OEM sensor in the box, we'll see in a few days.
I guess GM sends all their garbage north of the border then.
Originally Posted by 14Accent
Yea, I bought the CHEAP parts. The engine mount might have been a mistake to go cheap on, judging from past experience, but it was 1/6th the price of OEM.
I went with "Ultra Power" on the sensors, cheapest they had. Ultra Power is a parts wholesaler that buys excess inventory for resale. I've purchased their parts before, and I haven't been let down yet. There's a good chance that I'll get a Standard Products or MAYBE even an OEM sensor in the box, we'll see in a few days.
I've had pretty fair luck with Ultra Power parts-- I've never tried to identify the manufacturer, but it's clear they're just a reseller. Some suspension components I've got from them (tie rod ends, sway bar end links and the like) were cheap Chinese stuff, but the knock sensor I bought for my Maxima has been just fine (rats nest inside the engine V destroyed the old one).
I try to avoid cheap motor mounts like the plague unless- the mount is easy to replace or the OEM part not available or cost prohibitive. All aftermarket mounts I've purchased have required replacement at near yearly intervals. Okay on some vehicles, a real pain on others.
Yea, I bought the CHEAP parts. The engine mount might have been a mistake to go cheap on, judging from past experience, but it was 1/6th the price of OEM.
I went with "Ultra Power" on the sensors, cheapest they had. Ultra Power is a parts wholesaler that buys excess inventory for resale. I've purchased their parts before, and I haven't been let down yet. There's a good chance that I'll get a Standard Products or MAYBE even an OEM sensor in the box, we'll see in a few days.
I've had pretty fair luck with Ultra Power parts-- I've never tried to identify the manufacturer, but it's clear they're just a reseller. Some suspension components I've got from them (tie rod ends, sway bar end links and the like) were cheap Chinese stuff, but the knock sensor I bought for my Maxima has been just fine (rats nest inside the engine V destroyed the old one).
I try to avoid cheap motor mounts like the plague unless- the mount is easy to replace or the OEM part not available or cost prohibitive. All aftermarket mounts I've purchased have required replacement at near yearly intervals. Okay on some vehicles, a real pain on others.
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by StevieC
If domestic automakers would just spend a little more on quality sensors. A luxury brand shouldn't be having these kind of failures for the life of the vehicle. 02 sensors are one thing because of the extreme heat but not a crank or cam sensor. I have never replaced one in any of my vehicles and I drive a ton of miles.
That's quite the generalization!
In the past.......Asian brands have used simple Analog 2-wire A/C Sine Wave producing CKP & CMP sensors just about exclusively, This type of sensor has NO electronics to fail & are for the most part VERY reliable.
In the case of a Northstar.......The CKP is a Digital 3-wire DC Square Wave producing Sensor that is powered & grounded for the built-in electronics. Most all Domestic engineered GM engines use this style along with most Chrysler designs.
Ford used mostly Analog CKP sensors 'til the Ecoboost came out.
Electronics do not like heat, This alone will cause Digital sensors to fail more often than Analog sensors.
With advanced engine management needed to control Direct Injection &/or Atkinson Cycle-Valve Timing.......Digital CKP & CMP sensors have become a necessity for resolution/accuracy that Analog signal generators CANNOT achieve!
Ironically........Toyota had some issues with the implementation of this "New to them" technology that resulted in a CKP Sensor Safety Recall on some early 2GR-FKS engines.
IF this turns into a pattern failure-100,000 mile sensor like the FWD "Dual Sensor" Northstar's.......Will you or any other Toyota fanboy call these Denso sensors cheap junk? What if they randomly fail like most other Digital CKP sensors??
Why can't Toyota owners be more pragmatic when it comes to other brands......GM/Chrysler/Bosch were Innovators to use this technology 30+ years ago!
First of all it's my first Toyota, so I'm no fan boy. I bought car because it fit my needs and they have a reasonably good reputation. I never liked Chrysler and bought the Journey because I thought it might be 1/2 decent like the Caravans. Boy was I mistaken. Secondly when you have fixed a ton of vehicles like I have along with my dad you will notice that certain problems appear over and over again and the "Domestics" need to get their quality control fixed on the sensor end. Not so much Ford but GM is at the top of that list and then Chrysler. I never said that Japanese or Koreans or whoever for that matter was exempt. Toyota has certainly had lots of recalls, so has Hyundai/Kia or "Insert Manufacturer here".
But when there is a pattern of occurrence over and over you can't help but generalize. Furthermore this is GM we are talking about. One of the worst automakers for long-term quality proven by decades of garbage that they put out and constant problems. I could go on for hours about their failures from electrical, to gaskets, to piston rings, to timing chains, to oil leaks and consumption. Sure they had some good models but for the most part they are concerned about profits and not about longevity and will do whatever they can to maximize this at the expense of their customer. PERIOD.
I owned a Pontiac 6000 and it was one of the best cars I ever owned with the Quad 4 engine. I got a 100K out of it and paid $200 for the car and put $0 into it other than a battery. I would also buy a 4.3 Litre Jimmy, Astro or Safari or a Chevy express from the 80's, They were good solid vehicles for the most part just to name a few. PITA to work on maybe but otherwise ok. Just to show you I'm not biased against every vehicle.
The Pontiac 6000 did not offer the Quad4 engine...it wasn't even invented yet! You must have had the Iron Duke 2.5L 4cyl.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by StevieC
If domestic automakers would just spend a little more on quality sensors. A luxury brand shouldn't be having these kind of failures for the life of the vehicle. 02 sensors are one thing because of the extreme heat but not a crank or cam sensor. I have never replaced one in any of my vehicles and I drive a ton of miles.
That's quite the generalization!
In the past.......Asian brands have used simple Analog 2-wire A/C Sine Wave producing CKP & CMP sensors just about exclusively, This type of sensor has NO electronics to fail & are for the most part VERY reliable.
In the case of a Northstar.......The CKP is a Digital 3-wire DC Square Wave producing Sensor that is powered & grounded for the built-in electronics. Most all Domestic engineered GM engines use this style along with most Chrysler designs.
Ford used mostly Analog CKP sensors 'til the Ecoboost came out.
Electronics do not like heat, This alone will cause Digital sensors to fail more often than Analog sensors.
With advanced engine management needed to control Direct Injection &/or Atkinson Cycle-Valve Timing.......Digital CKP & CMP sensors have become a necessity for resolution/accuracy that Analog signal generators CANNOT achieve!
Ironically........Toyota had some issues with the implementation of this "New to them" technology that resulted in a CKP Sensor Safety Recall on some early 2GR-FKS engines.
IF this turns into a pattern failure-100,000 mile sensor like the FWD "Dual Sensor" Northstar's.......Will you or any other Toyota fanboy call these Denso sensors cheap junk? What if they randomly fail like most other Digital CKP sensors??
Why can't Toyota owners be more pragmatic when it comes to other brands......GM/Chrysler/Bosch were Innovators to use this technology 30+ years ago!
First of all it's my first Toyota, so I'm no fan boy. I bought car because it fit my needs and they have a reasonably good reputation. I never liked Chrysler and bought the Journey because I thought it might be 1/2 decent like the Caravans. Boy was I mistaken. Secondly when you have fixed a ton of vehicles like I have along with my dad you will notice that certain problems appear over and over again and the "Domestics" need to get their quality control fixed on the sensor end. Not so much Ford but GM is at the top of that list and then Chrysler. I never said that Japanese or Koreans or whoever for that matter was exempt. Toyota has certainly had lots of recalls, so has Hyundai/Kia or "Insert Manufacturer here".
But when there is a pattern of occurrence over and over you can't help but generalize. Furthermore this is GM we are talking about. One of the worst automakers for long-term quality proven by decades of garbage that they put out and constant problems. I could go on for hours about their failures from electrical, to gaskets, to piston rings, to timing chains, to oil leaks and consumption. Sure they had some good models but for the most part they are concerned about profits and not about longevity and will do whatever they can to maximize this at the expense of their customer. PERIOD.
I owned a Pontiac 6000 and it was one of the best cars I ever owned with the Quad 4 engine. I got a 100K out of it and paid $200 for the car and put $0 into it other than a battery. I would also buy a 4.3 Litre Jimmy, Astro or Safari or a Chevy express from the 80's, They were good solid vehicles for the most part just to name a few. PITA to work on maybe but otherwise ok. Just to show you I'm not biased against every vehicle.
The Pontiac 6000 did not offer the Quad4 engine...it wasn't even invented yet! You must have had the Iron Duke 2.5L 4cyl.
It had the sticker on the valve cover that said something 4 I assumed it was the quad 4.
It was noisy whatever it was.
It was noisy whatever it was.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted by StevieC
It had the sticker on the valve cover that said something 4 I assumed it was the quad 4.
It was noisy whatever it was.
Iron Duke....
The air cleaner had a sticker that said 4 Tech...As I recall it was like yellow and red. The Quad 4 would have said "Quad 4"
It had the sticker on the valve cover that said something 4 I assumed it was the quad 4.
It was noisy whatever it was.
Iron Duke....
The air cleaner had a sticker that said 4 Tech...As I recall it was like yellow and red. The Quad 4 would have said "Quad 4"
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