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#4810719 - 07/10/18 08:49 PM We are out of R12 already!
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16947
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Its getting hard to find.We had 60 lbs of R12 at the beginning of Summer. Its all gone as of today. And the hot season isn't here yet. There are a few cars that can't be retrofitted to R134a and those people are going to be hurting this summer.
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#4810721 - 07/10/18 08:51 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
2strokeNorthstar Offline


Registered: 07/19/17
Posts: 293
Loc: PR CA, USA
eBay or TJ

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#4810723 - 07/10/18 08:52 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29976
Loc: NY
I have about 25lbs. of it still. If/when I sell my van I'll sell the container.
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#4810747 - 07/10/18 09:25 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
123Saab Offline


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1688
Loc: PA
When It became harder to find a shop that could charge R12, I took it off my 1985 Saab Turbo 900 SPG.

I figured since I wasnt going to use it might as well loose the weight.

I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.
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#4810771 - 07/10/18 09:48 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
dishdude Offline


Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 8819
Loc: Phoenix
Considering they quit making it over 20 years ago, I'm not shocked!
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#4810799 - 07/10/18 10:27 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: dishdude]
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16947
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Considering they quit making it over 20 years ago, I'm not shocked!
people still walk in with 30 and 50 pound jugs of it they found in grandpa's garage.
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#4810800 - 07/10/18 10:28 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
exranger06 Offline


Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 3933
Loc: Guilford, CT
2 questions:
1: why can't some vehicles be converted to R134a?
2: if a customer comes in with an R12 vehicle, and it CAN be converted to R134a, but the customer wants to stick with R12, do you refuse and tell them you need to save the R12 for cars that can't be converted?
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#4810807 - 07/10/18 10:31 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: 123Saab]
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16947
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: 123Saab


I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.
a few cars can't be retrofitted to R134a....well not easily. Late 80's Cadillacs and suburbans won't retrofit. Still have many of those around here. Enough to use up all my R12!

The Cadillacs are all computer controlled ac. The r134a has just enough pressure difference that it trips the low refrigerant light and turns off the system. The big suburbans are barrely adequate with r12 and r134 just won't cool them.
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#4810818 - 07/10/18 10:43 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
bunnspecial Offline


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 778
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: 123Saab


I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.
a few cars can't be retrofitted to R134a....well not easily. Late 80's Cadillacs and suburbans won't retrofit. Still have many of those around here. Enough to use up all my R12!

The Cadillacs are all computer controlled ac. The r134a has just enough pressure difference that it trips the low refrigerant light and turns off the system. The big suburbans are barrely adequate with r12 and r134 just won't cool them.


You probably know this better than me, but I've never been satisfied with an R134a conversion in any car(and that includes doing it "right" with complete purge, seal replacement, and then a pump down and fill with R134a and the proper oil). R134a isn't as efficient of a refrigerant as R12, and in my experience systems designed for R12 just don't cool as well on R134a.

I wish that it was legal to use propane/isobutane the mixture in the proper proportion operates at similar pressures to R12 and supposedly is a bit more efficient.
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#4810820 - 07/10/18 10:46 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 8763
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: 123Saab


I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.
a few cars can't be retrofitted to R134a....well not easily. Late 80's Cadillacs and suburbans won't retrofit. Still have many of those around here. Enough to use up all my R12!

The Cadillacs are all computer controlled ac. The r134a has just enough pressure difference that it trips the low refrigerant light and turns off the system. The big suburbans are barrely adequate with r12 and r134 just won't cool them.


Is propane-iso illegal , or is it just illegal for a shop to do it?
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#4810830 - 07/10/18 11:02 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: exranger06]
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16947
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: exranger06
2 questions:
1: why can't some vehicles be converted to R134a?
2: if a customer comes in with an R12 vehicle, and it CAN be converted to R134a, but the customer wants to stick with R12, do you refuse and tell them you need to save the R12 for cars that can't be converted?
no I give them the option.
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#4810836 - 07/10/18 11:10 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: exranger06]
Chris142 Online   content


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 16947
Loc: Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: exranger06
2 questions:
1: why can't some vehicles be converted to R134a?
R12 is a very efficient refrigerant. It does not require a high efficiency condenser or electric fans to work well. When you have a system thats barely adequate with R12 and you retrofit it to R134a it just won't cool on our hot summer days.

Any Honda with a diesel Kiki ( yes that's a compressor manufacturer) won't retrofit. The compressor can't handle the extra pressures. Cadillacs have a computer controlled ac system and the slightly different pressures make the system turn off. Gm Vans and suburbans just have too big of an area to cool and not enough condenser to do it.
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#4810837 - 07/10/18 11:11 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: spasm3]
nthach Offline


Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 3977
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: spasm3


Is propane-iso illegal , or is it just illegal for a shop to do it?

Doesn't meet EPA, MACS and ASHRAE standards for mobile refrigeration - propane-iso is obviously flammable and poses a risk in a collision - the same concern was raised by Daimler with HF-1234yo.

Chemours markets a HC blend to replace R-134a and R-12 for mobile AC but they can't sell it here.

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#4810854 - 07/10/18 11:36 PM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
Kurtatron Offline


Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 174
Loc: Detroit
Makes me wonder what Iíll do for my Ď91 Previa. Itís on R12 now. I think some of the later models ran r134a. Should I stock up on R12, make retrofit when the leaks get too bad, or give up on then AC haha.


Edited by Kurtatron (07/10/18 11:36 PM)

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#4810864 - 07/11/18 12:12 AM Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 9681
Loc: Central Washington
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Cadillacs have a computer controlled ac system and the slightly different pressures make the system turn off.


That can most assuredly be tricked or bypassed.
Not that you really want to convert, but at some point someone is going to have to do the legwork of putting together a circuit to trick that computer, or bypass it completely.
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