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We are out of R12 already! #4810719
07/10/18 07:49 PM
07/10/18 07:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline OP
Chris142  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Its getting hard to find.We had 60 lbs of R12 at the beginning of Summer. Its all gone as of today. And the hot season isn't here yet. There are a few cars that can't be retrofitted to R134a and those people are going to be hurting this summer.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810721
07/10/18 07:51 PM
07/10/18 07:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 447
PR CA, USA
2strokeNorthstar Offline
2strokeNorthstar  Offline

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 447
PR CA, USA
eBay or TJ


2001 F150 5.4L 140k miles
2013 Nissan Juke Nismo 80k
2000 Honda S2000 183k
1998 BMW 328i 170k
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810723
07/10/18 07:52 PM
07/10/18 07:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,425
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,425
NY
I have about 25lbs. of it still. If/when I sell my van I'll sell the container.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810747
07/10/18 08:25 PM
07/10/18 08:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,753
PA
123Saab Offline
123Saab  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,753
PA
When It became harder to find a shop that could charge R12, I took it off my 1985 Saab Turbo 900 SPG.

I figured since I wasnt going to use it might as well loose the weight.

I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.


Anything can happen
The tallest towers be overturned
Those in high places be daunted
Those overlooked regarded
- Seamus Heaney
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810771
07/10/18 08:48 PM
07/10/18 08:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,476
Phoenix
dishdude Offline
dishdude  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,476
Phoenix
Considering they quit making it over 20 years ago, I'm not shocked!


2018 Challenger SRT 392 PUP 0w-40 Wix 57899XP
2018 GTI
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: dishdude] #4810799
07/10/18 09:27 PM
07/10/18 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline OP
Chris142  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Considering they quit making it over 20 years ago, I'm not shocked!
people still walk in with 30 and 50 pound jugs of it they found in grandpa's garage.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810800
07/10/18 09:28 PM
07/10/18 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,089
Guilford, CT
exranger06 Offline
exranger06  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,089
Guilford, CT
2 questions:
1: why can't some vehicles be converted to R134a?
2: if a customer comes in with an R12 vehicle, and it CAN be converted to R134a, but the customer wants to stick with R12, do you refuse and tell them you need to save the R12 for cars that can't be converted?


2006 Ford Ranger Sport
1992 Honda Accord EX
2004 Honda CR-V LX - totaled
1994 Ford Bronco XLT (project)
2011 Cadillac Escalade ESV (wife's)
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: 123Saab] #4810807
07/10/18 09:31 PM
07/10/18 09:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline OP
Chris142  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: 123Saab


I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.
a few cars can't be retrofitted to R134a....well not easily. Late 80's Cadillacs and suburbans won't retrofit. Still have many of those around here. Enough to use up all my R12!

The Cadillacs are all computer controlled ac. The r134a has just enough pressure difference that it trips the low refrigerant light and turns off the system. The big suburbans are barrely adequate with r12 and r134 just won't cool them.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810818
07/10/18 09:43 PM
07/10/18 09:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 864
US
bunnspecial Offline
bunnspecial  Offline

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 864
US
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: 123Saab


I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.
a few cars can't be retrofitted to R134a....well not easily. Late 80's Cadillacs and suburbans won't retrofit. Still have many of those around here. Enough to use up all my R12!

The Cadillacs are all computer controlled ac. The r134a has just enough pressure difference that it trips the low refrigerant light and turns off the system. The big suburbans are barrely adequate with r12 and r134 just won't cool them.


You probably know this better than me, but I've never been satisfied with an R134a conversion in any car(and that includes doing it "right" with complete purge, seal replacement, and then a pump down and fill with R134a and the proper oil). R134a isn't as efficient of a refrigerant as R12, and in my experience systems designed for R12 just don't cool as well on R134a.

I wish that it was legal to use propane/isobutane the mixture in the proper proportion operates at similar pressures to R12 and supposedly is a bit more efficient.


2010 Lincoln MKZ-Mobil 1 5W-30
1970 MG MGB Roadster-Valvoline VR-1 20W-50
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810820
07/10/18 09:46 PM
07/10/18 09:46 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,702
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,702
out there
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: 123Saab


I honestly didn't know some folks still use it.
a few cars can't be retrofitted to R134a....well not easily. Late 80's Cadillacs and suburbans won't retrofit. Still have many of those around here. Enough to use up all my R12!

The Cadillacs are all computer controlled ac. The r134a has just enough pressure difference that it trips the low refrigerant light and turns off the system. The big suburbans are barrely adequate with r12 and r134 just won't cool them.


Is propane-iso illegal , or is it just illegal for a shop to do it?


13 elantra 72k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 7300 miles m1 0w30
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: exranger06] #4810830
07/10/18 10:02 PM
07/10/18 10:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline OP
Chris142  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: exranger06
2 questions:
1: why can't some vehicles be converted to R134a?
2: if a customer comes in with an R12 vehicle, and it CAN be converted to R134a, but the customer wants to stick with R12, do you refuse and tell them you need to save the R12 for cars that can't be converted?
no I give them the option.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: exranger06] #4810836
07/10/18 10:10 PM
07/10/18 10:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline OP
Chris142  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,179
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Originally Posted By: exranger06
2 questions:
1: why can't some vehicles be converted to R134a?
R12 is a very efficient refrigerant. It does not require a high efficiency condenser or electric fans to work well. When you have a system thats barely adequate with R12 and you retrofit it to R134a it just won't cool on our hot summer days.

Any Honda with a diesel Kiki ( yes that's a compressor manufacturer) won't retrofit. The compressor can't handle the extra pressures. Cadillacs have a computer controlled ac system and the slightly different pressures make the system turn off. Gm Vans and suburbans just have too big of an area to cool and not enough condenser to do it.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: spasm3] #4810837
07/10/18 10:11 PM
07/10/18 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,780
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,780
California
Originally Posted By: spasm3


Is propane-iso illegal , or is it just illegal for a shop to do it?

Doesn't meet EPA, MACS and ASHRAE standards for mobile refrigeration - propane-iso is obviously flammable and poses a risk in a collision - the same concern was raised by Daimler with HF-1234yo.

Chemours markets a HC blend to replace R-134a and R-12 for mobile AC but they can't sell it here.

Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810854
07/10/18 10:36 PM
07/10/18 10:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
Detroit
Kurtatron Offline
Kurtatron  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
Detroit
Makes me wonder what Iíll do for my Ď91 Previa. Itís on R12 now. I think some of the later models ran r134a. Should I stock up on R12, make retrofit when the leaks get too bad, or give up on then AC haha.

Last edited by Kurtatron; 07/10/18 10:36 PM.
Re: We are out of R12 already! [Re: Chris142] #4810864
07/10/18 11:12 PM
07/10/18 11:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,925
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline
Colt45ws  Offline

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,925
Central Washington
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Cadillacs have a computer controlled ac system and the slightly different pressures make the system turn off.


That can most assuredly be tricked or bypassed.
Not that you really want to convert, but at some point someone is going to have to do the legwork of putting together a circuit to trick that computer, or bypass it completely.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 86k
Pennzoil Conv HM 5W30, Fram XG2
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