Recent Topics
Champion AGM batteries
by bbhero. 09/18/18 08:53 PM
General opinion about Cooper CS5 Ultra?
by dan_erickson. 09/18/18 08:37 PM
Rotella Online Rebate
by PumpPusher. 09/18/18 08:13 PM
Audi A4 vs Volkswagen CC...or good old Passat?
by KCJeep. 09/18/18 07:19 PM
GM 454 engine
by dirtymudder. 09/18/18 07:13 PM
High Performance Motorcycle oil...which one?
by Neiz15. 09/18/18 06:50 PM
Need help High Performance Motorcycle oil?
by Neiz15. 09/18/18 06:38 PM
MC FL-500S CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude. 09/18/18 05:15 PM
FORD FACTORY FILTER CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude. 09/18/18 05:06 PM
2019 Harley Davidson FXDR 114
by DuckRyder. 09/18/18 04:59 PM
USS Forrestal question
by cjcride. 09/18/18 03:52 PM
Breaker Box
by Throt. 09/18/18 03:00 PM
Honda metal fuel tank seam leak
by wing0. 09/18/18 02:49 PM
Cracked single stage paint
by JHZR2. 09/18/18 01:45 PM
Options versus dealer oil changes
by Schmoe. 09/18/18 01:34 PM
Longevity of Mercon LV in a 2017 Ford Escape?
by mrdctaylor. 09/18/18 01:24 PM
I'm on a Lawn Boy jag
by andyd. 09/18/18 01:13 PM
Old (New) Tires
by ET16. 09/18/18 12:05 PM
iOs 12 for Apple
by madRiver. 09/18/18 12:01 PM
Newest Members
tomkat22, tabar2004, SierraMan, Rennmeister, KeithCoates
66004 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
102 registered members (ammolab, Astro14, aquariuscsm, Ablebody, ARB1977, 92saturnsl2, 7 invisible), 1,721 guests, and 36 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,614
Posts4,847,460
Members66,004
Most Online3,590
Jan 24th, 2017
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
CV Joint Grease Failure? #4783492
06/10/18 11:47 PM
06/10/18 11:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,988
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,988
CA
Yesterday, I rebooted the passenger axle’s inner cv boot on a 2008 Camry V6. The inboard CV joint sits very close to an exhaust pipe so the joint sees high temperatures on a regular basis. When the old boot was removed, the grease inside the joint had the consistency of a XW-20 engine oil. The new grease from the Toyota CV Boot Kit had the consistency that you would expect for CV Boot grease.

Is there any way to prevent viscosity breakdown in this application? As you may see in the pictures below, there is a small amount of wear on the rollers (bearings), which I attribute to the grease “failure.”

Old grease with the consistency of lightweight motor oil:


Prior to re-booting: old boot that was seeping grease.

Evidence of grease seepage from the cv boot. The grease was slinging onto the engine timing cover and the p/s pump.

You can see the wear on the inner cv joint’s rollers (bearings) from this picture. The surfaces were still smooth though.

Had to use a 3-jaw puller to separate the slider from the shaft.



2011 Toyota Prius - 173k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 131K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783501
06/11/18 12:40 AM
06/11/18 12:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,285
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,285
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Redline Oil has a grease. Archoil does too. Am soil should also. Maybe just need a stouter formula would be my guess.

Last edited by Marco620; 06/11/18 12:40 AM.

15' Civic 179k.0w20 Redline/Archoil9100,Eibach,Yokohama/Borla Exhaust/Tein Suspension/Fu7317/Redline Si-1
Right to work state proud. Non union household
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783503
06/11/18 12:45 AM
06/11/18 12:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I have posted this many times on the board, CV joint failure is NOT always accompanied by boot failure.
Slight clicking (outer) or roughness (inner) after the car has been sitting a few days or weeks and disappears after a few minutes of being driven is often an indicator of lube failure in a joint.

A good sight of this is what appears to be thick oil or thin grease residue around the outside of the boos just beyond the band clamp at the edge of the boot.
The boot was not designed to contain oils or thin lubes but grease. Good catch, you fixed it just as you should have. thumbsup


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783504
06/11/18 12:48 AM
06/11/18 12:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,699
USA
oldhp Offline
oldhp  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,699
USA
Can you make a heat shield?



Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783509
06/11/18 01:12 AM
06/11/18 01:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,741
New Zealand
Silk Online content
Silk  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,741
New Zealand
The genuine Toyota inner joint grease is light brown in colour, and quite runny compared to outer CV joint grease.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: Silk] #4783519
06/11/18 01:33 AM
06/11/18 01:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,988
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,988
CA
Originally Posted By: Silk
The genuine Toyota inner joint grease is light brown in colour, and quite runny compared to outer CV joint grease.


The new grease had the consistency of grease; the thickness was similar to grape jelly.

The old stuff that drained out reminded me of used 20-wt engine oil. The only possibility I can think of, is perhaps the grease is designed to shear down over time?


2011 Toyota Prius - 173k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 131K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783545
06/11/18 04:37 AM
06/11/18 04:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
No it isn't, its called planned obsolescence. I use Redline CV-2 exclusively on CV joints, it hangs in there well over 100K.
On most car joints I give them 7oz ea on the outer and 5-7 for the inside and never had a problem.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783591
06/11/18 07:05 AM
06/11/18 07:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,515
The Motor City
It may not be intuitive that bearings with micromotion need light grease. The idea is that you want the grease to reflow under the rollers as they push the lube aside. Heavy grease has a difficult time doing this. These bearings never develop anything near a hydrodynamic film.

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: Kestas] #4783609
06/11/18 07:42 AM
06/11/18 07:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I suppose that's why the grease has a high 5% moly content. Too thin and its all in the boot and does not find its way back into the joint to any real degree.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783625
06/11/18 08:10 AM
06/11/18 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,834
Texas
WyrTwister Offline
WyrTwister  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,834
Texas
On GM & Ford cars , I always used the grease that came with the CV joint kit . No idea on a Camry .


Wyr
God bless
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783667
06/11/18 09:12 AM
06/11/18 09:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 401
Ga
DB_Cooper Offline
DB_Cooper  Offline
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 401
Ga
Actually you don't have a true CV joint there on the inner side of the axle. What you have is a "tripod ball CV" and the manufacturer (Honda,Audi or whoever) will use an urea grease rather than a high moly CV joint grease/paste. Urea grease works very well in high temp environments. Yes it is watery..which is a good thing with those needle rollers.

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: Kestas] #4783686
06/11/18 09:37 AM
06/11/18 09:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 265
Canada
nobb Offline
nobb  Offline
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 265
Canada
Originally Posted By: Kestas
It may not be intuitive that bearings with micromotion need light grease. The idea is that you want the grease to reflow under the rollers as they push the lube aside. Heavy grease has a difficult time doing this. These bearings never develop anything near a hydrodynamic film.


This is a good point. The inner CV uses needle bearings that see micromotion of which a more fluid like lubricant is beneficial. The outer joint is a Rzeppa style of which the balls see sliding motion and would benefit from a high moly lubricant. I would expect the Rzeppa joint to fail before the needle rollers on the inner joint.

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: DB_Cooper] #4783844
06/11/18 12:12 PM
06/11/18 12:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I had a 08 Subaru inner joint with thin stuff in it and a bad joint, perfect boot though.
Are needle bearings in LFL U Joints using lube thin as heavy oil? Most commercial driveshaft builders use GL2 none moly. the needle bearing is only one part of the plunge joint.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783923
06/11/18 12:57 PM
06/11/18 12:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,142
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,142
California
My hypothesis is that GKN/NTN is using thin grease that shears down to flow into the tripod joint and with very little moly or not loaded down with the stuff like most aftermarket grease. Keep in mind Toyota frowns upon on moly in grease unless it's being used in a application with sliding/fretting wear like ball joints and driveshaft splines.

In theory, it's quite similar to how trucks and buses use semi-fluid NLGI 0/00 grease to lubricate their axle hubs - it gives the persistence of grease but the flow of oil if a truck operation or transit authority has oil-lubricated hubs but needs endurance. Mobil, Chevron and Valvoline market semi-fluid greases for this:
https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/lubricants/products/mobilith-shc-007
https://hd.valvoline.com/our-products/valvoline-axle-hub-grease
http://www.deloperformance.com/en-us/products/Delo-Synthetic-Grease-SF.html

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: nthach] #4783934
06/11/18 01:25 PM
06/11/18 01:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,895
MA, Mittelfranken.de
An axle hube is a much higher speed bearing. In a plunge CV joint there is sliding and rolling wear taking place.
No matter I keep using what I have been using for years that has proven itself and not having any trouble with, others use whatever they want.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™