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CV Joint Grease Failure? #4783492
06/10/18 10:47 PM
06/10/18 10:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,422
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,422
CA
Yesterday, I rebooted the passenger axle’s inner cv boot on a 2008 Camry V6. The inboard CV joint sits very close to an exhaust pipe so the joint sees high temperatures on a regular basis. When the old boot was removed, the grease inside the joint had the consistency of a XW-20 engine oil. The new grease from the Toyota CV Boot Kit had the consistency that you would expect for CV Boot grease.

Is there any way to prevent viscosity breakdown in this application? As you may see in the pictures below, there is a small amount of wear on the rollers (bearings), which I attribute to the grease “failure.”

Old grease with the consistency of lightweight motor oil:


Prior to re-booting: old boot that was seeping grease.

Evidence of grease seepage from the cv boot. The grease was slinging onto the engine timing cover and the p/s pump.

You can see the wear on the inner cv joint’s rollers (bearings) from this picture. The surfaces were still smooth though.

Had to use a 3-jaw puller to separate the slider from the shaft.



2011 Toyota Prius - 184k - M1 EP/EP HM Mix 0W-20
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 134K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783501
06/10/18 11:40 PM
06/10/18 11:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,647
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,647
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
Redline Oil has a grease. Archoil does too. Am soil should also. Maybe just need a stouter formula would be my guess.

Last edited by Marco620; 06/10/18 11:40 PM.

15' Civic 1.8 i-vtec 213,000 mi 0w20 Redline/Redline CVT/Archoil9100/TEIN/Eibach/Tanabe Sustec/Borla Exhaust/87 E0 fuel/Yokohama
Son of a Navy Corpsman. Support vets!


Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783503
06/10/18 11:45 PM
06/10/18 11:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I have posted this many times on the board, CV joint failure is NOT always accompanied by boot failure.
Slight clicking (outer) or roughness (inner) after the car has been sitting a few days or weeks and disappears after a few minutes of being driven is often an indicator of lube failure in a joint.

A good sight of this is what appears to be thick oil or thin grease residue around the outside of the boos just beyond the band clamp at the edge of the boot.
The boot was not designed to contain oils or thin lubes but grease. Good catch, you fixed it just as you should have. thumbsup


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783504
06/10/18 11:48 PM
06/10/18 11:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
USA
oldhp Offline
oldhp  Offline

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
USA
Can you make a heat shield?


2018 RAM 1500 3.6/8 speed.
2017 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6
"U kan't fixe it......if'n it ain't broke."
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783509
06/11/18 12:12 AM
06/11/18 12:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,002
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,002
New Zealand
The genuine Toyota inner joint grease is light brown in colour, and quite runny compared to outer CV joint grease.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-40 Castrol Magnatec diesel.
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: Silk] #4783519
06/11/18 12:33 AM
06/11/18 12:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,422
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,422
CA
Originally Posted By: Silk
The genuine Toyota inner joint grease is light brown in colour, and quite runny compared to outer CV joint grease.


The new grease had the consistency of grease; the thickness was similar to grape jelly.

The old stuff that drained out reminded me of used 20-wt engine oil. The only possibility I can think of, is perhaps the grease is designed to shear down over time?


2011 Toyota Prius - 184k - M1 EP/EP HM Mix 0W-20
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 134K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783545
06/11/18 03:37 AM
06/11/18 03:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
No it isn't, its called planned obsolescence. I use Redline CV-2 exclusively on CV joints, it hangs in there well over 100K.
On most car joints I give them 7oz ea on the outer and 5-7 for the inside and never had a problem.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783591
06/11/18 06:05 AM
06/11/18 06:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,796
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,796
The Motor City
It may not be intuitive that bearings with micromotion need light grease. The idea is that you want the grease to reflow under the rollers as they push the lube aside. Heavy grease has a difficult time doing this. These bearings never develop anything near a hydrodynamic film.

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: Kestas] #4783609
06/11/18 06:42 AM
06/11/18 06:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I suppose that's why the grease has a high 5% moly content. Too thin and its all in the boot and does not find its way back into the joint to any real degree.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783625
06/11/18 07:10 AM
06/11/18 07:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,363
Texas
WyrTwister Offline
WyrTwister  Offline

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,363
Texas
On GM & Ford cars , I always used the grease that came with the CV joint kit . No idea on a Camry .


Wyr
God bless
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783667
06/11/18 08:12 AM
06/11/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 410
Ga
DB_Cooper Offline
DB_Cooper  Offline

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 410
Ga
Actually you don't have a true CV joint there on the inner side of the axle. What you have is a "tripod ball CV" and the manufacturer (Honda,Audi or whoever) will use an urea grease rather than a high moly CV joint grease/paste. Urea grease works very well in high temp environments. Yes it is watery..which is a good thing with those needle rollers.

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: Kestas] #4783686
06/11/18 08:37 AM
06/11/18 08:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 285
Canada
nobb Offline
nobb  Offline

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 285
Canada
Originally Posted By: Kestas
It may not be intuitive that bearings with micromotion need light grease. The idea is that you want the grease to reflow under the rollers as they push the lube aside. Heavy grease has a difficult time doing this. These bearings never develop anything near a hydrodynamic film.


This is a good point. The inner CV uses needle bearings that see micromotion of which a more fluid like lubricant is beneficial. The outer joint is a Rzeppa style of which the balls see sliding motion and would benefit from a high moly lubricant. I would expect the Rzeppa joint to fail before the needle rollers on the inner joint.

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: DB_Cooper] #4783844
06/11/18 11:12 AM
06/11/18 11:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I had a 08 Subaru inner joint with thin stuff in it and a bad joint, perfect boot though.
Are needle bearings in LFL U Joints using lube thin as heavy oil? Most commercial driveshaft builders use GL2 none moly. the needle bearing is only one part of the plunge joint.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: The Critic] #4783923
06/11/18 11:57 AM
06/11/18 11:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,784
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,784
California
My hypothesis is that GKN/NTN is using thin grease that shears down to flow into the tripod joint and with very little moly or not loaded down with the stuff like most aftermarket grease. Keep in mind Toyota frowns upon on moly in grease unless it's being used in a application with sliding/fretting wear like ball joints and driveshaft splines.

In theory, it's quite similar to how trucks and buses use semi-fluid NLGI 0/00 grease to lubricate their axle hubs - it gives the persistence of grease but the flow of oil if a truck operation or transit authority has oil-lubricated hubs but needs endurance. Mobil, Chevron and Valvoline market semi-fluid greases for this:
https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/lubricants/products/mobilith-shc-007
https://hd.valvoline.com/our-products/valvoline-axle-hub-grease
http://www.deloperformance.com/en-us/products/Delo-Synthetic-Grease-SF.html

Re: CV Joint Grease Failure? [Re: nthach] #4783934
06/11/18 12:25 PM
06/11/18 12:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,966
MA, Mittelfranken.de
An axle hube is a much higher speed bearing. In a plunge CV joint there is sliding and rolling wear taking place.
No matter I keep using what I have been using for years that has proven itself and not having any trouble with, others use whatever they want.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
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