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Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type #4776003
06/03/18 04:17 AM
06/03/18 04:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,033
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,033
CA
Some of you may have seen my thread on the 2004 Lexus RX330. It is a pro-bono job for my landlord. The car has worn lower control arm bushings. Since Toyota does not sell bushings separately, the options were either OE arms ($400) or aftermarket control arms ($70-$110). While she begrudgingly approved the OE arms due to durability concerns of the aftermarket arms, the cost of the OE arms is a bit asinine.

After doing some additional research, it appears that Moog does make a "spherical design" control arm bushing for this application. The Moog bushing is a ball-and-socket bearing that is permanently lubricated (and sealed), and take the place of the OE-style rubber control arm bushing.

http://www.moogparts.com/pdf/problemsolv..._failure_EN.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-FthbeJ-sw

Does anyone have experience with this specific Moog product? I am mainly curious about the durability and ride quality. I searched some of the part numbers on Amazon and some folks complained about knocking sounds from this "bushing."

Thanks.

Last edited by The Critic; 06/03/18 04:25 AM.

2011 Toyota Prius - 173k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 131K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4776009
06/03/18 05:09 AM
06/03/18 05:09 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,389
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Online content
Char Baby  Online Content
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,389
ROCHESTER, NY
Not the bushings themselves but, I have replaced many control arms using the MOOG control arms(tie rods, stabilizer bar links etc.) and the overall ride quality is like OE. However as I have stated in your shock/strut thread for this same RX330, OE especially LEXUS, is always the best for longevity.


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4776042
06/03/18 06:58 AM
06/03/18 06:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,534
Indiana
dlundblad Online happy
dlundblad  Online Happy
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,534
Indiana
Looks like this Lexus suffers from the same issues the Volvo P2's suffer from.

Some Volvo guys have gone straight to poly vertical bushings for increased durability.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4776082
06/03/18 08:14 AM
06/03/18 08:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,108
Lyndhurst NJ
Audios Offline
Audios  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,108
Lyndhurst NJ
Ive had serious issues with Moog quality in the past few years, mostly on european vehicles, but ive had to warranty a few pieces made by them.


2002 VW Golf TDI-Mobil 1 5/40 TDT
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4776084
06/03/18 08:15 AM
06/03/18 08:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,121
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,121
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Like I said in the other thread I use them on some GM cars, so far non knock but I can think of a few reasons they would.
Installation error of the bushing in the arm where the boot gets nicked by whatever they are using to press it it with or installation in the car also where the boot gets damaged or worn suspension components.

If the suspension can move enough for the ball to hit the outer sleeve it could knock, worn springs, shocks and bad bump stops would allow this. Poly in for this type of bushing is also very good as it wont squeak but those from Energy will ride hard as they use the same hard durometer for everything.

If PSB makes one it will be a softer and not stiffen the ride but they are a little more expensive from what I can tell the PSB 689 is the one for the RX.
As far as aftermarket arms go don't bother, its honestly a 50% failure rate regardless if its Moog, TRW, Lemforderer, etc.
The failure is with the alignment and the amount of adjustment available to correct it.

I have had identical arms with the same part number where one is fine and the other fail camber and its replacement fail caster, consistent quality is not their strong point.
2 Moog arms failed caster and their replacements failed camber to a non correctable degree, getting the parts changed under warrant is no problem its the $75 alignment every time. Now I use OE arms only or replace the bushings if the arm isn't rotten.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4776099
06/03/18 08:32 AM
06/03/18 08:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 232
Reno, Nevada
Langanobob Offline
Langanobob  Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 232
Reno, Nevada
Iíd go with the OEM parts. Very good of you to be going out of your way to help her and also find the best possible prices, but youíre assuming some risk with the Moog bushings or any other aftermarket parts. Good feeling to help a deserving person with a car repair. Not so good if you have to do it twice.

I havenít looked but you may be able to find a better price for the OEM parts from a discount online parts dealer.

Moog used to be an iconic name but it seems not so much anymore. Too bad.

Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: Langanobob] #4776225
06/03/18 11:21 AM
06/03/18 11:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,254
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,254
ME
Originally Posted By: Langanobob
Good feeling to help a deserving person with a car repair.


Not knowing all the details but I expect his landlady is a leg up on him moneywise.

Also see, OMG I have a flashy Lexus status symbol but can't afford not to/ choose to get it fixed on the side.

That all said when Critic's the age of his landlady I expect him to be running a small island nation. LOL

Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4776233
06/03/18 11:30 AM
06/03/18 11:30 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Pajero Offline
Pajero  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
I would stick with OEM. Although, every application is different and unique. I've compared aftermarket to Mitsubishi and Mitsu wins. But, the cost can be a game changer for most. I enjoy peace of mind and only doing the job once.


Respectfully,

Pajero!


Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: eljefino] #4779135
06/06/18 01:30 PM
06/06/18 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,797
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,797
OH
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Not knowing all the details but I expect his landlady is a leg up on him moneywise.

Also see, OMG I have a flashy Lexus status symbol but can't afford not to/ choose to get it fixed on the side.

That all said when Critic's the age of his landlady I expect him to be running a small island nation. LOL


I remember the story about your old landlady. In the winter time you
would wait till she leaves then hook up a hose to the hot water heater
and wash the car. smile

Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: SatinSilver] #4779166
06/06/18 02:06 PM
06/06/18 02:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,121
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,121
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Sound like an old lady, no deals there. LOL


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4779170
06/06/18 02:11 PM
06/06/18 02:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,319
Austin, TX
MaximaGuy Offline
MaximaGuy  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,319
Austin, TX
If the labor is more than the part then OEM without doubt (learnt the lesson pretty hard on my front struts).


2018 MB GLE350
2011 Lexus ES350
2006 Toyota Highlander 4WD
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4781280
06/08/18 12:57 PM
06/08/18 12:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,033
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,033
CA
New parts:

Passenger Side Arm:

Driver Side Arm:

Rear mount unbolted (bottom only), front mount unbolted (top and bottom), dogbone mount removed, passenger side mount removed. Engine/Trans are supported with a large piece of wood under the engine oil pan. Pole jack is there for preventing the CV axle from coming apart:

Done (before final tightening of the rear bushing, which was done after the car was on the ground):


For this particular RX, we decided to go with OE. However, I have other owners who are interested in the Moog bushings, so the 3 pairs I ordered will not go to waste. More to come.

LCA replacement on these SUV's (or any FWD Toyota V6) is not a job for a novice. Every engine and transmission mount was either removed or unbolted in order to raise the powertrain. The subframe (on the driver side) had to be lowered slightly in order for the driver side transmission mount to come out. Careful attention must be given to the CV axles while lifting the engine/transmission or else you can damage the CV axles.

The dealer quotes 4-6 hours for this job, so with OE arms and alignment, the price comes out to $1500-$2k. It took me around 3.5 hours, but I started on this one late in the day...so I was slow. If I had to do it again, I can do it in about 2 hours.

After replacement of the control arms only, the car drives significantly better. The steering feel is much improved (more accurate) and road dampening is mildly improved. Even the owner noticed right away.

Last edited by The Critic; 06/08/18 01:06 PM.

2011 Toyota Prius - 173k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 131K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4781299
06/08/18 01:24 PM
06/08/18 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,548
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,548
VW Fanboy Island
Originally Posted By: The Critic
LCA replacement on these SUV's (or any FWD Toyota V6) is not a job for a novice. Every engine and transmission mount was either removed or unbolted in order to raise the powertrain. The subframe (on the driver side) had to be lowered slightly in order for the driver side transmission mount to come out. Careful attention must be given to the CV axles while lifting the engine/transmission or else you can damage the CV axles.


Sounds like you need a lift, too.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 205k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: maxdustington] #4781300
06/08/18 01:26 PM
06/08/18 01:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,033
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,033
CA
Originally Posted By: maxdustington

Sounds like you need a lift, too.


Lift is not required, having 2 floor jacks should be adequate.

But getting the ball joint back into the control arm can be a bit difficult. Being able to do it while standing up makes the job a lot easier...


2011 Toyota Prius - 173k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 131K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Moog Vertical Control Arm Bushings - Bearing Type [Re: The Critic] #4781333
06/08/18 01:59 PM
06/08/18 01:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,319
Austin, TX
MaximaGuy Offline
MaximaGuy  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,319
Austin, TX
Happy Landlord Happy Tenant - hopefully she takes care of your space & lease for all the free service!!


2018 MB GLE350
2011 Lexus ES350
2006 Toyota Highlander 4WD
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