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#4734125 - 04/21/18 12:19 PM '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)?
Number_35 Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 862
Loc: Winnipeg MB CA
2009 Kia Sedona 3.8 l DOHC V6 w/ timing chain, VVT on intake side only

I changed the oil and last Fall c. 110K km (70K miles), and used Mobil 1 0W-30 and a Kia cartridge filter. The van now has about 116400 km on it, so about 6400 km (4000 miles) and 6 months on the present oil.

For the previous oil change, I'd left it an entire year - about 12K km (7500 miles).

I would consider changing it now for several reasons:

1. The van does a fair number of short trips over the winter, so these are hard miles.

2. Per BITOG, short OCIs are an important factor in extending timing chain life. (I am leery of timing chains in OHC double-bank engines, but it is what it is - timing belts are going the way of the dinosaur.)

3. I was intrigued by a recent post in which Nissan research indicated that the use of 0W oil seemed to result in higher timing chain wear. In the same post, it seemed that timing chains also did best with oils with a tight specified range (that is, 5W-20 or 5W-30 would be better than 0W-30 or 0W-40).

4. I'm also a bit worried about the VVT issues other manufacturers have had with extended OCIs. (Not that the van is anywhere near an extended OCI yet, but I'd rather err on the safe side.

Thoughts from you wise BITOGers? Thanks in advance.

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#4734149 - 04/21/18 12:45 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
JC1 Offline


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 3114
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario Canada
How long before the OCI would be at 7500 km? I'd stretch it out until then.

My winter oil change on the caravan is at 6200km. I'll leave it until 8000km then change it out.
_________________________
2015 Grand Caravan SXT Plus 5w-20 PPPP/Fram Ultra Filter
1997 Honda Civic CX 5w-30 Shell Conventional/Fram Ultra Filter

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#4734235 - 04/21/18 02:07 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3019
Loc: Wet side WA
It will nicer and warmer in Winnipeg in a month.
_________________________
2004 Corolla 123807
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: Castrol EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74202
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18

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#4734241 - 04/21/18 02:11 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 7035
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Interesting. Where was the Nissan info you mentioned? Based on what you posted, it makes it sound like high VI and timing chains are not such a good combination.

A 10w30 would be the bomb then.

Only 4k miles and 6 months seems pretty short for a high quality full syn regardless or the use. JMO.
_________________________
09 Lincoln MKZ AWD 95k - M1 AFE 0w30
12 KIA Sedona 90k - PP HM 10w30
09 Ford Focus 130k - GTX UltraClean 5w30
00 Chevy Lumina 198k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee gone but not forgotten.

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#4734258 - 04/21/18 02:21 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 2221
Loc: London, England
I think I wouls prefer the statement that Nissan struggle to make an engine without camchain issues being a possibility.

The 2.5 diesel as used in the Navara and Pathfinder is rather famous for giving trouble.

As is the camchain in certain models of Nissan Micra.

I have never heard of a camchain being affected by using a 0w spec oil.

Specific to the OPs situation I can't see there being any issue running the engine for the whole year if only doing 7500miles.

But I suspect I would change the oil at 6 months anyway.

As I would always be thinking that an oil and filter change is cheap
_________________________
16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS

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#4734293 - 04/21/18 02:45 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2050
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Had a Cobalt 2.2L with cartridge filter. Changed it in the fall with PP. About 5000 kms later, in April, the filter was sludged up, and had collapsed. Short trips and cold weather. I always change fall and spring after that experience.
_________________________
2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash

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#4734733 - 04/21/18 09:04 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: KCJeep]
Number_35 Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 862
Loc: Winnipeg MB CA
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Interesting. Where was the Nissan info you mentioned? Based on what you posted, it makes it sound like high VI and timing chains are not such a good combination.

A 10w30 would be the bomb then.

Only 4k miles and 6 months seems pretty short for a high quality full syn regardless or the use. JMO.
KCJeep - Here's a link to that discussion:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...hic#Post4717589

That was my takeaway - I could be wrong.



Edited by Number_35 (04/21/18 09:05 PM)

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#4734735 - 04/21/18 09:07 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Danno]
Number_35 Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 862
Loc: Winnipeg MB CA
Originally Posted By: Danno
Had a Cobalt 2.2L with cartridge filter. Changed it in the fall with PP. About 5000 kms later, in April, the filter was sludged up, and had collapsed. Short trips and cold weather. I always change fall and spring after that experience.
Yowch - I definitely want to avoid that! FWIW, the cartridge filter looked good after the one-year interval last Fall.

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#4734743 - 04/21/18 09:11 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: bigjl]
Number_35 Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 862
Loc: Winnipeg MB CA
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I think I wouls prefer the statement that Nissan struggle to make an engine without camchain issues being a possibility.

The 2.5 diesel as used in the Navara and Pathfinder is rather famous for giving trouble.

As is the camchain in certain models of Nissan Micra.

I have never heard of a camchain being affected by using a 0w spec oil.

Specific to the OPs situation I can't see there being any issue running the engine for the whole year if only doing 7500miles.

But I suspect I would change the oil at 6 months anyway.

As I would always be thinking that an oil and filter change is cheap

It does seem like Nissan's quality has been quite variable since the Renault takeover. In recent years I've viewed them as being not on par with the other Japanese manufacturers. I didn't know about their timing chain issues, but am not surprised. If this is not an issue with Kia or Mazda, great!

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#4734747 - 04/21/18 09:15 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: JohnnyJohnson]
Number_35 Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 862
Loc: Winnipeg MB CA
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
It will nicer and warmer in Winnipeg in a month.
Indeed! Actually it was nice early this afternoon - sunny and about 15 C. Most of the snow is gone. But ... if I leave it a month, the interval to next October will be that much shorter. Decisions, decisions ...

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#4734759 - 04/21/18 09:25 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3019
Loc: Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: Number_35
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
It will nicer and warmer in Winnipeg in a month.
Indeed! Actually it was nice early this afternoon - sunny and about 15 C. Most of the snow is gone. But ... if I leave it a month, the interval to next October will be that much shorter. Decisions, decisions ...


Well don't wait to long into October or you'll likely be dealing with changing it in the snow!
_________________________
2004 Corolla 123807
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: Castrol EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74202
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18

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#4734820 - 04/21/18 10:32 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5691
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
All of these are prolly struggling from insufficient oil flow over the timing chain. Often they are only lubed by splash oil, side leakage from the front cam bearings, or even crankcase mist ...

Timing chains have been failing since the 1930's. This is not really new.

When I build an engine, I always drill 0.030" holes in the front lifter gallery plugs. That sprays a small stream of oil on the chain and sprockets. I get far less cam chain "stretch" and my timings always stay more consistent.

Is there any way to mod this engine to increase oil delivery to the timing chain?


Edited by BrocLuno (04/21/18 10:33 PM)
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4734856 - 04/21/18 11:18 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
69Torino Offline


Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 322
Loc: Indy
Haven’t seen them so much stretch as much as seen the plastic tensioner guides wear out. More the issue here. As far as plastic chain guides go, change your oil on a severe usage schedule and you should be fine. I’ve seen a lion’s share of chain slapping Lambda V-6’s in all the platforms they come in, with the owners saying “I change my oil every 7,500 miles just like the manual says”. 5k for me thanks. I too, have a Lambda V-6 in the stable with 186k and rapidly climbing.
_________________________
1969 Ford Torino GT 390 Auto
2003 Mercury Marauder
1992 Mercury Capri Convertible
2005 Ford Freestyle
2008 Hyundai Santa Fe
2015 Kia Optima
1947 Ford 2N
1978 Honda XL75
Plus Other Stuff...

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#4734862 - 04/21/18 11:28 PM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: BrocLuno]
69Torino Offline


Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 322
Loc: Indy
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
All of these are prolly struggling from insufficient oil flow over the timing chain. Often they are only lubed by splash oil, side leakage from the front cam bearings, or even crankcase mist ...

Timing chains have been failing since the 1930's. This is not really new.

When I build an engine, I always drill 0.030" holes in the front lifter gallery plugs. That sprays a small stream of oil on the chain and sprockets. I get far less cam chain "stretch" and my timings always stay more consistent.

Is there any way to mod this engine to increase oil delivery to the timing chain?


There is no gallery plug directly in line with the chain. However, if I ever have the chains of of these engines or 2.4/2.0 Theta’s, I always put a little extra “push” on the hydraulic tensioner to give it an extra “click” of tension on the chain(s). Definitely helps keep them quiet. Oil pressure only does so much. The chain tensioners have a lock-back ratchet, and if the tensioner is on the cusp of hitting the next tooth on the ratchet but oil pressure won’t push it hard enough, it slaps like crazy on cold startup. And sometimes constantly.

So I guess you could pull the timing cover and push the tensioner out a click for the cost of two tubes of RTV, a couple valve cover gaskets and a plenum gasket. If the noise wakes you with nightmares.

A couple of Lambda’s have tricked me in the past, same noise as previously mentioned but was caused by the dowel pin between the cam phasers and camshafts egg-shaping the dowel pin hole, requiring cam and phaser replacement. No oil change interval or super duper oil can fix or prevent that.


Edited by 69Torino (04/21/18 11:29 PM)
_________________________
1969 Ford Torino GT 390 Auto
2003 Mercury Marauder
1992 Mercury Capri Convertible
2005 Ford Freestyle
2008 Hyundai Santa Fe
2015 Kia Optima
1947 Ford 2N
1978 Honda XL75
Plus Other Stuff...

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#4755688 - 05/13/18 09:03 AM Re: '09 Kia Sedona - to change or not to change (oil)? [Re: Number_35]
Number_35 Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 862
Loc: Winnipeg MB CA
I checked the owner's manual, and it does not mention a severe service schedule, but does recommend oil & filter changes @ 8000 km. We were pushing 7000 km and seven months, and based on valuable comments in this thread about timing chain & guide wear I figured I wouldn't delay.

Based on previous discussions about a tight viscosity range minimizing timing chain wear, I went with Mobil 1 5W-30. I figured that if we don't put a lot of km on over the summer, a 5W synthetic will work well into the winter.

Anyway, here are a few shots from yesterday's labours:

I crawled under with a couple of big wrenches, and then remembered that I'd installed a Fumoto:


The filter housing is up top, and easy to get to:


Genuine Kia filter from the dealership:


Not the same as pulling a valve cover, but this limited view through the filler hole looks good, and there was no mayonnaise on the filler cap:


The sump is big, around 6-1/2 litres, so I used all of the Canadian 4.4 litre jug and about half of the American 5 qt jug.


While the van was up on ramps anyway, I drained about 4 l of coolant (2nd time), and refilled with a jug of NAPA's Asian pre-mixed coolant. I like how accessible the radiator drain plug is:


I also drained the tranny (2nd time), hard to resist when the van is on ramps and there's a drain plug. Refilled w/ 5 qts of AMSOIL ATF, which meets (and I'm sure exceeds) the Mitsu/Hyundai/Kia SP-III spec.

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