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"EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" #4706915
03/25/18 09:26 PM
03/25/18 09:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,627
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,627
Kendall, FL
"Enough With The Lies — Electric Cars Are Far Greener Than Gas Cars #Basta"

http://flip.it/tptC1P


18 KIA Sportage 2.4 AWD
QSUD 5W-20, PH9688

13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
PP EuroL 5W-30, OE
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4706921
03/25/18 09:29 PM
03/25/18 09:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,773
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,773
...
Italian link? Nope.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4706927
03/25/18 09:32 PM
03/25/18 09:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,563
PV Az @ 5000'
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,563
PV Az @ 5000'
Yesterday I was leaving a store, ahead of me was a BMW i3, coming into the lot was a Tesla 3, followed by a Hummer H2! The times they are a changin'...


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4706934
03/25/18 09:36 PM
03/25/18 09:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,720
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
JHZR2  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,720
New Jersey
I generally believe the premise that well to wheels is better for ev on an energy basis, because single large scale power generation offers thermal efficiency and pollution mitigation benefits, even if from coal.

I'm not as sold on the energy density claims. It is not good to charge too fast. And batteries have poor density compared to liquid fuels.

Which is why I'm pro HEV and PHEV, anti-EV.

Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4706939
03/25/18 09:39 PM
03/25/18 09:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,547
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,547
MA, Mittelfranken.de
One mans opinion vs another. I like EV but realistically the infrastructure in many areas cannot support a majority of them.
Look at these roads, they cant even afford (so they claim) to fix the holes never mind repave, if anyone thinks they can modernize the electric grid they are living in la la land.

https://www.citylab.com/environment/2015...as-cars/397136/


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: PimTac] #4706942
03/25/18 09:42 PM
03/25/18 09:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,627
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,627
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Italian link? Nope.


It isn't an Italian website. "Flip-it" is a constant, realtime newsfeed for Android users.


18 KIA Sportage 2.4 AWD
QSUD 5W-20, PH9688

13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
PP EuroL 5W-30, OE
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4706943
03/25/18 09:42 PM
03/25/18 09:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,126
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,126
SE British Columbia, Canada
To me the advance will be much slower than the writers make out. The Tesla geeks will get their Model 3 and then sales will drop to a much lower level.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4706961
03/25/18 10:02 PM
03/25/18 10:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,773
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,773
...
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Italian link? Nope.


It isn't an Italian website. "Flip-it" is a constant, realtime newsfeed for Android users.


Ah I see. I was redirected on the iPhone.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4706966
03/25/18 10:08 PM
03/25/18 10:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,254
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,254
MN
How clean an EV is really depends on how much coal is burned to get the kWH (or BTU, joules, whatever energy units you want) of electricity.
California has very clean electricity, where only about 4% is from coal.
Colorado, by contrast, has 55% from coal, I think the worst in the U.S.

Interesting how China is very dirty, with 72% of their electricity from coal, making it not a great idea to run an EV in China!
France generates very clean electricity, using nuclear at 72%, so an EV is awesome in France.

Natural gas burning has about half the carbon footprint as burning coal (per energy unit), so its better to use.

Bottom line: Get away from coal, and EV's look cleaner and cleaner.....

Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4707019
03/25/18 10:44 PM
03/25/18 10:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,563
PV Az @ 5000'
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,563
PV Az @ 5000'
Interesting. For some EVs are all about saving the planet, for others they're about saving money, with saving the planet a bonus. In a month I'm going to start a 70 mile round-trip commute and have been looking at vehicle options, with the RAV getting 30-32 mpg and paid for none of the EV variants make economic sense in a reasonable time frame at current gas prices.

Would you green guys drive an EV if the operating costs are the same but the carbon footprint is notably less?


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: AZjeff] #4707065
03/26/18 12:27 AM
03/26/18 12:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,379
Utah
CKN Offline
CKN  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,379
Utah
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Interesting. For some EVs are all about saving the planet, for others they're about saving money, with saving the planet a bonus. In a month I'm going to start a 70 mile round-trip commute and have been looking at vehicle options, with the RAV getting 30-32 mpg and paid for none of the EV variants make economic sense in a reasonable time frame at current gas prices.

Would you green guys drive an EV if the operating costs are the same but the carbon footprint is notably less?



It doesn't make sense because you current vehicle gets fairly decent gas millage and it's paid for. So-you are going to use (roughly) 4 gallons a gas a day. However-there was someone on another thread who stated he was leasing a BMW i3 for a 105.00 a month.

here is an example-
https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/lease-a-b...d-for-may/11153

However-I'm not sure what the yearly millage allowance is-or what incentives are available where you live.

Last edited by CKN; 03/26/18 12:29 AM.
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4707131
03/26/18 05:58 AM
03/26/18 05:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,616
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Online content
Danno  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,616
Northern Ontario, Canada
As EVs gain in popularity, how long before local and state govts look at revenue lost in gasoline taxes?


2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2015 KIA RIO SX
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: wemay] #4707170
03/26/18 07:04 AM
03/26/18 07:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,319
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,319
WI
Exactly...they're skirting those taxes. They're using the roads just as much but not paying to help maintain them.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: Danno] #4707174
03/26/18 07:09 AM
03/26/18 07:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,424
USA
SOHCman Offline
SOHCman  Offline

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,424
USA
Originally Posted By: Danno
As EVs gain in popularity, how long before local and state govts look at revenue lost in gasoline taxes?


That's how it always works isn't it, they have already put in that "hybrid tax" to make up for hybrid drivers not paying their fair share of gas taxes. It's only a matter of time.

I personally have no interest in driving a coal powered car, and I don't think we can actually call Nuclear "clean" since we are left with the toxic waste. Please correct me if I am wrong.


I urge people not to wait 100K to change out the fluid in their transfer case units. -Kestas
Re: "EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers" [Re: AZjeff] #4707223
03/26/18 08:12 AM
03/26/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,720
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
JHZR2  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,720
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Interesting. For some EVs are all about saving the planet, for others they're about saving money, with saving the planet a bonus. In a month I'm going to start a 70 mile round-trip commute and have been looking at vehicle options, with the RAV getting 30-32 mpg and paid for none of the EV variants make economic sense in a reasonable time frame at current gas prices.

Would you green guys drive an EV if the operating costs are the same but the carbon footprint is notably less?


If I had to commute 70 miles a day, Id consider 30-32 MPG pretty lousy, even at current gas prices. Others may have different opinions.

Assuming gas is $2.50/gal, the difference between 30 and 45 MPG driven 70 mi daily for 50 weeks per year is just under $500, FWIW. Its true that as vehicles do better and better on fuel, the benefits are diminishing, and especially if a vehicle is paid off, it makes zero sense to change until the time comes. However, long-haul driving isnt necessarily the target of EVs for certain, and while PHEV and HEVs do well in those conditions, the reality goes back to energy density and using the fuel.

But add in traffic, stop and go, etc., and 30-32 falls quick, while the HEV rises rapidly.

Which is precisely why there is no one size fits all, and why pure EVs make no sense unless they at least have a small coupled genset (e.g. the BMW i3 if it was implemented properly and not hindered by the US laws), and even then are questionable!




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