"EV naysayers are getting smaller in numbers"

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Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Originally Posted By: Danno
As EVs gain in popularity, how long before local and state govts look at revenue lost in gasoline taxes?


That's how it always works isn't it, they have already put in that "hybrid tax" to make up for hybrid drivers not paying their fair share of gas taxes. It's only a matter of time.

I personally have no interest in driving a coal powered car, and I don't think we can actually call Nuclear "clean" since we are left with the toxic waste. Please correct me if I am wrong.


If I am not mistaken , we are still trying to figure out what to do with nuclear waste , all the way back to WWII . It is a politically hot potato that is a " can " that has been kicked down the road , ever since the 1940's .

We has a 2012 , used Nisan Leaf ( until it was rear ended & totaled ) that my wife drove as an in town only car . We liked it a lot . Were not trying to save the planet . Just wanted an electric car , a lark . ( We have a Chevy Sonic for out of town . )

Best I could tell , the electricity costs were about 1/2 what the gasoline costs were for the Sonic . At $ 2 a gallon for gas , it was never going to be economically practical .

Wife usually charged it at lunch & then over night .

Nice car . As I said , we liked it . I still have the charging station .
 
There isn't the infrastructure of power generating plants to make EV's viable.
There wasn't much in the way of paved roads or gas stations in the infancy of the automobile.

EV's only have a limited usefulness, not suitable for mass everyday use.
Until Henry Ford started cranking out practical affordable cars you might have said the same about gasoline powered cars.

Well look at the pollution that batteries will cause.
I believe we are entering an age of social responsibility, again, nothing that can't be overcome.

Early cars were dangerous, unreliable , and spewed toxins wherever they went. Progress has been made, and will continue..

Claud.
 
I believe Oregon changed their tax to a miles driven annually versus a percentage tax at the gas pump. The EV owners were not happy but they use the roads, they should pay the taxes.


One idea that has piqued my curiosity is Mazda’s plan for a battery powered car developed along with Toyota and Panasonic. One feature would be a very small rotary engine that will drive a generator that would charge the batteries. The rotary would be very smooth and virtually undetectable when it starts and stops.
 
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We leased the i3 because it was cheap and I thought it would be fun to drive. Saving the planet had zero influence on the decision.
The only liability is that I might be mistaken for a tree-hugging eco-weenie...
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
We leased the i3 because it was cheap and I thought it would be fun to drive. Saving the planet had zero influence on the decision.
The only liability is that I might be mistaken for a tree-hugging eco-weenie...


57.gif
Just because the coal isn't being burned in your car, and instead off site at a power plant doesn't change it's still a coal powered car. "Saving the planet" would be a fallacy in this case. My .02 to each their own.
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: SOHCman

57.gif
Just because the coal isn't being burned in your car, and instead off site at a power plant doesn't change it's still a coal powered car. "Saving the planet" would be a fallacy in this case. My .02 to each their own.
smile.gif



I think that you missed my point; I could not care less whether an i3 saves the planet or poisons it- I leased it because it was cheap and interesting- and saves us a few dollars.
 
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
57.gif
Just because the coal isn't being burned in your car, and instead off site at a power plant doesn't change it's still a coal powered car. "Saving the planet" would be a fallacy in this case. My .02 to each their own.
smile.gif

Way off. You neglect the fact that not all electricity comes from coal, only a fraction. Electricity also comes from natural gas, wind, solar, nuclear, hydro. As coal fades away, EV's look better and better for both carbon footprint and pollution.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
57.gif
Just because the coal isn't being burned in your car, and instead off site at a power plant doesn't change it's still a coal powered car. "Saving the planet" would be a fallacy in this case. My .02 to each their own.
smile.gif

Way off. You neglect the fact that not all electricity comes from coal, only a fraction. Electricity also comes from natural gas, wind, solar, nuclear, hydro. As coal fades away, EV's look better and better for both carbon footprint and pollution.


40% of electricity in the US comes from coal. Wind and solar combined account for about 3%. Care to make a guess about how much the cost of electricity will skyrocket when 40% of the supply is removed? Coal will not fade away anytime soon. Coal dominates on the east coast, and there is a lot also mined in the northern plains. Solar is only a factor in the desert southwest where there is a lot of sunshine.
 
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister


If I am not mistaken , we are still trying to figure out what to do with nuclear waste , all the way back to WWII . It is a politically hot potato that is a " can " that has been kicked down the road , ever since the 1940's .


Primarily due to regulations and politics I'd wager. Spent US fuel can be reprocessed like they do in Europe, but you don't. Spent US fuel and even depleted Uranium can be recycled, as fuel, in an AFCR reactor. Again, seemingly no interest.

So it isn't like solutions don't exist, it's that none of them are being pursued. China has started, beginning with the Qinshan facility, coupling their US-style enriched Uranium reactors with AFCR CANDU's that then are fed the waste from the PWR's to produce more power and reduce overall waste. There can be further recycling and reprocessing as part of that process as well.
 
Actually , we have a LOT of radioactive waste that is other than spent fuel rods .

And , it is a political " hot potato " because no one wants a disposal site anywhere near them .
 
I suspect some of the reasons that some are saying "Environmental" really means "I don't want one because I can't work on it myself".
 
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Originally Posted By: CKN
I suspect some of the reasons that some are saying "Environmental" really means "I don't want one because I can't work on it myself".


I have over 35 years in the electrical trade . But the chances of me being able to work on the Nissan Leaf , we had , were very slim .

I had neither the factory documentation or factory tools / instruments ( electronics ) to do so .

Sure , I could have worked on brakes , suspension , etc. . Luckily , during the short time we owned it , the only thing we had done to it was tires and alignment .
 
A_Harman, your numbers are pretty far off. You can't go by memory of something from 2001 you know. The truth is:

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
40% of electricity in the US comes from coal.
Nope, its 30%.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Wind and solar combined account for about 3%.
Again, way off. The real answer is 8% wind+solar combined. Nuclear and Renewables together are 37%. Facts, not conjecture.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Coal dominates on the east coast,
Nope. Less than 2% coal makes the electricity in New England, and yes thats on the east coast. [/quote]
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
I suspect some of the reasons that some are saying "Environmental" really means "I don't want one because I can't work on it myself".




It's true, one of the many freedoms I enjoy in this great country is the ability to drive what I want, work on it myself and never have to rely on shady dealers.

It has nothing to do with anything environmental though, please explain further.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies

A_Harman, your numbers are pretty far off. You can't go by memory of something from 2001 you know. The truth is:

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
40% of electricity in the US comes from coal.
Nope, its 30%.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Wind and solar combined account for about 3%.
Again, way off. The real answer is 8% wind+solar combined. Nuclear and Renewables together are 37%. Facts, not conjecture.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Coal dominates on the east coast,
Nope. Less than 2% coal makes the electricity in New England, and yes thats on the east coast.
[/quote]

I'm interested where you are getting your numbers. Care to cite sources? Thanks!
 
Start with: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=electricity_in_the_united_states

Also see:
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
https://www.iso-ne.com/about/key-stats/resource-mix
https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=NY
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/energyoffice/electricity-overview
http://www.energy.ca.gov/almanac/electricity_data/total_system_power.html

And in this UCS tool, put in east coast 02130, west coast 90210, and then a Colorado zip code 80110 to see that the middle of the country burns a lot of coal but the east AND west coasts burn very little:
https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/ev-emissions-tool

Its really easy to dig up these documents by using the google terms, for example,
U.S. electricity production coal natural gas
and substitute in a state name for the U.S. text to get various regions, or put in New England for a group out east.

Also, a key fact to remember is that natural gas has more hydrogen in it, and therefore doesn't dump as much CO2 in the atmosphere as coal which has less hydrogen in it, so its carbon footprint is less.
 
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Actually , we have a LOT of radioactive waste that is other than spent fuel rods .

And , it is a political " hot potato " because no one wants a disposal site anywhere near them .


I know. You have a lot of depleted Uranium too. As I said, it can be used as fuel.
 
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