Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
How clean an EV is really depends on how much coal is burned to get the kWH (or BTU, joules, whatever energy units you want) of electricity.
California has very clean electricity, where only about 4% is from coal.
Colorado, by contrast, has 55% from coal, I think the worst in the U.S.
Interesting how China is very dirty, with 72% of their electricity from coal, making it not a great idea to run an EV in China!
France generates very clean electricity, using nuclear at 72%, so an EV is awesome in France.
Natural gas burning has about half the carbon footprint as burning coal (per energy unit), so its better to use.
Bottom line: Get away from coal, and EV's look cleaner and cleaner.....
IMO its all about how you set up the plant. Im sure there's data to help sway this one way or another, but my initial opinions are as follows:
- NG may be plentiful and domestic, but it still needs cleanup in some cases to avoid sulfur and NOx emissions. Plus its not particularly useful currently for a road fuel for the common person.
- Oil (crude) needs a lot of added energy to be cleaned sufficiently to be a "clean" road fuel or power generation fuel. 15ppm ULSD costs some premium to make, has benefits and disadvantages. Plants may be able to get away without low sulfur feeds if they can "treat" their exhaust on the way out.
- Coal can have a lot of sulfur and create a lot of soot, but it too can be treated at the stack.
So the question becomes, given the energy required to clean up liquid fuels, and the post treatment (regardless of if used to charge EVs or operate in IC vehicle engines), is it cleaner and cheaper to do it in a large-scale centralized process, or locally at point of use?
There are pros and cons to each.
So then one has to pick their bogeyman. Is it Sulfur? Is it Nox? Is it soot? Is it CO2? Is it nuclear waste and/or meltdown?
And which are avoidable/preventable without huge economic upset?
Seems that the clean coal bit may still have useful legs, so long as Nuke is a NIMBY issue, and NG is best served for heating and cooking point of use in homes, because it is clean and manageable. Nobody advocates going back to coal fired water heaters and kitchen stoves...
An EV is awesome when renewables can be fully absorbed as they are produced. I wouldnt call an EV off of nuke any more or less awesome than one charged by coal. They both have their long-term downsides. Assuming that renewables are positive energy balance and can be made with clean industrial processes, they are attractive, IMO.
The challenge with renewables is if YOU own them on your home, youre not likely home during the day to use solar. So the direct, DIY charge is not in play. Feed the grid and other intermediate storage and stability issues come into play, which cause their own problems.
Its a complex issue thats for sure.