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#4663047 - 02/11/18 02:49 PM forced crankcase ventalation
red7404 Offline


Registered: 01/24/18
Posts: 175
Loc: KS
would it be a good idea to use a small rotary air pump to suck crank case air out of the crank case. and NOT push air into the intake of the engine. but just dump the crank case air to the atmosphere. and DONT even talk about the environment, I am thinking out loud.

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#4663049 - 02/11/18 02:51 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2965
Loc: USA
Why forced though? The old school valve cover breathers worked fine right?

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#4663052 - 02/11/18 02:55 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10012
Loc: Indiana
I don’t think we’d see a difference because it’d have to be a variable speed thing in tune with the engine. Too much or too little may cause seal failure.

With the “normal” way, you have the increased vacuum as the RPM’s increase.
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#4663054 - 02/11/18 02:58 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
A properly designed PCV system does exactly this.
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#4663062 - 02/11/18 03:02 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Many race cars use a system like this:

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#4663065 - 02/11/18 03:03 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18856
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
The movement of the piston does force air through the crankcase one way or another. LOL
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#4663078 - 02/11/18 03:09 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 3933
Loc: Manchester, England
A rotary pump would work but would also be electrical or mechanical load.

This device http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/25900/10002/-1 uses waste exhaust energy to perform the same function.
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#4663089 - 02/11/18 03:19 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: red7404
would it be a good idea to use a small rotary air pump to suck crank case air out of the crank case. and NOT push air into the intake of the engine. but just dump the crank case air to the atmosphere. and DONT even talk about the environment, I am thinking out loud.


Yes. I have this on 4 vehicles now, although I do route back to the air intake, via the filter box. Neither air filter or intake tract ever get oily at all.

Crankcase emissions can smell. For some reason, Rotella oil stinks it up the worst by a large margin.

Quote:
Why forced though? The old school valve cover breathers worked fine right?


They don't circulate fresh air into the crankcase. I let a little bleed air come in through a filtered inlet, but the system still maintains 9" of vacuum at all times.

Quote:
I don’t think we’d see a difference because it’d have to be a variable speed thing in tune with the engine. Too much or too little may cause seal failure.

With the “normal” way, you have the increased vacuum as the RPM’s increase.


Only if the pump is belt driven. I use Ford electric emissions pumps.

Quote:
A properly designed PCV system does exactly this.


It doesn't. When the engine is under the most load, the crankcase gases increase, and the amount of vacuum decreases.

Quote:
A rotary pump would work but would also be electrical or mechanical load.

This device http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/25900/10002/-1 uses waste exhaust energy to perform the same function.


That system works good if you have open headers with no mufflers. Otherwise, the one-way valves pretty much remain closed at all times and the system does not function.
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#4663178 - 02/11/18 04:22 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
CT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10942
Loc: Idaho
Years ago there were vacuum pumps made for the crankcase ,I haven't followed hot rodding for years.
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#4663196 - 02/11/18 04:42 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5511
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Pro-Stock and other classes use vacuum crankcases. Worth maybe 5 HP net at 9,000 RPM. On the street at 2,700 - worth nothing - might even be parasitic ...
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#4663296 - 02/11/18 07:30 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
red7404 Offline


Registered: 01/24/18
Posts: 175
Loc: KS
well OK my friends here have some very good ideas. and some info i didnt know. thanks.

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#4663314 - 02/11/18 08:01 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
NYEngineer Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1562
Loc: NY, NY
As stated earlier, race cars do this. There are belt driven and electrically driven vacuum pumps. It's regulated by a valve that controls the amount of leakage back into the engine.
Race guys do it for improved ring seal. In some cases the horsepower increase is fairly significant.

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#4663526 - 02/12/18 06:45 AM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: BrocLuno]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 7146
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Pro-Stock and other classes use vacuum crankcases. Worth maybe 5 HP net at 9,000 RPM. On the street at 2,700 - worth nothing - might even be parasitic ...


Actually, it depends on the engine design. Pumping crankcase air under and between each cylinder can take significant work. Manufacturers now strive to reduce losses by designing in airflow management.

An inline 4 can have quite a bit more losses than a V8 depending on design.

Evacuating a crankcase is a time tested method to reduce losses. It can be done on a single cylinder engine with just a one way reed valve. Lets the air out, but not back in. The pressure quickly stabilizes at about 1/2 atmosphere.

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#4663945 - 02/12/18 01:41 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: red7404]
andyd Offline


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 7139
Loc: Marshfield , MA
Evacuating a crankcase is a time tested method to reduce losses. It can be done on a single cylinder engine with just a one way reed valve. Lets the air out, but not back in. The pressure quickly stabilizes at about 1/2 atmosphere.

OOOh, thats the thingee that fills the carb up with oil when you tip the mower the wrong way. grin2


Edited by andyd (02/12/18 01:42 PM)
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#4664209 - 02/12/18 06:50 PM Re: forced crankcase ventalation [Re: BrocLuno]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5236
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Pro-Stock and other classes use vacuum crankcases. Worth maybe 5 HP net at 9,000 RPM. On the street at 2,700 - worth nothing - might even be parasitic ...


In much lesser classes, running 1000HP engines, the gains are 10HP per 1" of vacuum. This has been solidly demonstrated over decades.
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07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
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