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#4655558 - 02/04/18 07:57 AM Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation?
dlundblad Offline


Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 10033
Loc: Indiana
D1G2 is the newest fad. Better late than never I guess, but anyways..

Are the oils the same formulation or did companies have to make some adjustments to get it to pass?

I am assuming some companies had to make some adjustments whereas others did not. shrug
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#4655571 - 02/04/18 08:04 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
zrxkawboy Offline


Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 1761
Loc: SD
I would assume that also...re-formulated as required.
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#4655580 - 02/04/18 08:11 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Difficult to say. Really the answer is likely "it depends" M1 probably had a good head start with their reduced Ca and supplement of Mg in the additive pack. Likewise others may have had to conduct a major product overhaul. Aside from industry chemists and blenders we'll likely never know aside from obvious changes or deviations from previous UOA/VOA results and those are limited to what can be seen by a standard ICP test protocol.
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#4655589 - 02/04/18 08:22 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: FlyNavyP3]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4627
Loc: Virginia
There has been significant changes in a number of the big names formulations Luke. Very big drops in calcium for Pennzoil and Quaker State for sure. No longer over 2400 ppm of calcium. They are less than 1500 ppm of calcium now. I don't think Valvoline has had to make any huge changes. They were always around 2000 ppm of calcium. So, they may have dropped it just a bit but nothing huge like Pennzoil did.
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#4655650 - 02/04/18 09:33 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1899
Loc: GA.
I believe calcium is one , then more resistant to fuel dilution and greater protection for timing chains - all of these improvements intended for GN DI / DI turbo engines ...
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#4655671 - 02/04/18 09:51 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
D1G2 is the newest fad. Better late than never I guess, but anyways..

Are the oils the same formulation or did companies have to make some adjustments to get it to pass?

I am assuming some companies had to make some adjustments whereas others did not. shrug


Dexos1 Generation 2 is a formulaton upgrade from generation Uno. Any reformulation had to be resubmitted for testing to qualify for the GM listing.

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#4655674 - 02/04/18 09:56 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida
Duplicate post*
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#4655675 - 02/04/18 09:57 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: ChrisD46]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I believe calcium is one , then more resistant to fuel dilution and greater protection for timing chains - all of these improvements intended for GN DI / DI turbo engines ...


This
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#4655819 - 02/04/18 11:46 AM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
dwendt44 Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 3969
Loc: Central Wisconsin
Dexos or D1G2 is a performance or test that an oil
needs to pass (along with a stipend to GM) in order
to be certified.
Most oil companies will fiddle with their formulas so
that their products meet or pass GM's test process.
Most synthetics will pass already, some need a small
alteration (calcium) as noted above.

My 2
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#4655843 - 02/04/18 12:02 PM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: bbhero]
Whimsey Offline


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4047
Loc: The Garden State
Originally Posted By: bbhero
There has been significant changes in a number of the big names formulations Luke. Very big drops in calcium for Pennzoil and Quaker State for sure. No longer over 2400 ppm of calcium. They are less than 1500 ppm of calcium now. I don't think Valvoline has had to make any huge changes. They were always around 2000 ppm of calcium. So, they may have dropped it just a bit but nothing huge like Pennzoil did.


I think the use of sodium as an additive in the oil exasperates LSPI. Since Valvoline uses sodium as an additive I'm guessing they have to change that to meet the Dexos 1 gen 2 requirements. Does anybody know for sure?

Whimsey

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#4655914 - 02/04/18 01:02 PM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: Whimsey]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4627
Loc: Virginia
I have read where a calcium and sodium mix could be responsible for LSPI events in addition to just high calcium which seemed to be the worst for causing LSPI. I'd bet that Valvoline may well have dropped both or just one or the other. Older version Valvoline Synpower was around 2200 ppm of calcium and 400 ppm of sodium. It will interesting to see what they did to help with this circumstance.

So in summary Valvoline didn't have to make as big of a change versus Pennzoil and Quaker State. Where they were using calcium of 2400-2600 ppm and zero sodium and went they both down to around 1400-1000 ppm of calcium.


Edited by bbhero (02/04/18 01:05 PM)
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#4656043 - 02/04/18 03:05 PM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida
I can't wait to see pqia voa for these new oils.
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#4656149 - 02/04/18 05:03 PM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15699
Loc: OH
Some blenders appear to have been ahead of the curve in recognizing LSPI as a problem and formulating their synthetic oils accordingly. These oils should easily pass the performance requirements of this updated dexos spec.
As an aside, I wonder what will happen to the engines as these cars are passed down the food chain as cheap used runners to their second and third owners? Will these engines get appropriate oils, or will they be run on unsuitable ones having only the virtue of being cheap which will hasten the demise of them?
I'd suspect the latter and we may be seeing the first generations of mass-market engines where oil selection really does matter and no shortening of drain intervals will help with this.
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#4656171 - 02/04/18 05:41 PM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: fdcg27]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4298
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Some blenders appear to have been ahead of the curve in recognizing LSPI as a problem and formulating their synthetic oils accordingly. These oils should easily pass the performance requirements of this updated dexos spec.
As an aside, I wonder what will happen to the engines as these cars are passed down the food chain as cheap used runners to their second and third owners? Will these engines get appropriate oils, or will they be run on unsuitable ones having only the virtue of being cheap which will hasten the demise of them?
I'd suspect the latter and we may be seeing the first generations of mass-market engines where oil selection really does matter and no shortening of drain intervals will help with this.



I would think that most oils will eventually conform to the new d1G2 standards. They should work just fine on most older vehicles.
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#4656179 - 02/04/18 05:57 PM Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2566
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Are the oils the same formulation or did companies have to make some adjustments to get it to pass? I am assuming some companies had to make some adjustments whereas others did not.
One clue: Mobil1 might not have had to change a thing since my 2018 Chevy Owner's Manual says the 1st-Gen dexos1 is fine as long as its Mobil1... any other brand is required to be dexos1 Gen2. They have had low Ca for about 4 years now for LSPI.

The new dexos1 Gen2 timing chain tests should be taken seriously though.
I was reading something recently where it said that ZDDP didn't help chains much, but more moly and boron did, so that might explain the increase in those for some new dexos1 Gen2 formulas we've seen so far.

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