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Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? #4655558
02/04/18 07:57 AM
02/04/18 07:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,692
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,692
Indiana
D1G2 is the newest fad. Better late than never I guess, but anyways..

Are the oils the same formulation or did companies have to make some adjustments to get it to pass?

I am assuming some companies had to make some adjustments whereas others did not. shrug


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Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4655571
02/04/18 08:04 AM
02/04/18 08:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,863
SD
zrxkawboy Offline
zrxkawboy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,863
SD
I would assume that also...re-formulated as required.


"Think of all the Ford owners who will someday want an automobile." John Dodge

Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4655580
02/04/18 08:11 AM
02/04/18 08:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,703
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline
FlyNavyP3  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,703
Jacksonville, FL
Difficult to say. Really the answer is likely "it depends" M1 probably had a good head start with their reduced Ca and supplement of Mg in the additive pack. Likewise others may have had to conduct a major product overhaul. Aside from industry chemists and blenders we'll likely never know aside from obvious changes or deviations from previous UOA/VOA results and those are limited to what can be seen by a standard ICP test protocol.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4655589
02/04/18 08:22 AM
02/04/18 08:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,433
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,433
Virginia
There has been significant changes in a number of the big names formulations Luke. Very big drops in calcium for Pennzoil and Quaker State for sure. No longer over 2400 ppm of calcium. They are less than 1500 ppm of calcium now. I don't think Valvoline has had to make any huge changes. They were always around 2000 ppm of calcium. So, they may have dropped it just a bit but nothing huge like Pennzoil did.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Mobil Super 5w30 Wix 57356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4655650
02/04/18 09:33 AM
02/04/18 09:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,100
GA.
ChrisD46 Offline
ChrisD46  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,100
GA.
I believe calcium is one , then more resistant to fuel dilution and greater protection for timing chains - all of these improvements intended for GN DI / DI turbo engines ...


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Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4655671
02/04/18 09:51 AM
02/04/18 09:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,533
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,533
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
D1G2 is the newest fad. Better late than never I guess, but anyways..

Are the oils the same formulation or did companies have to make some adjustments to get it to pass?

I am assuming some companies had to make some adjustments whereas others did not. shrug


Dexos1 Generation 2 is a formulaton upgrade from generation Uno. Any reformulation had to be resubmitted for testing to qualify for the GM listing.


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4655674
02/04/18 09:56 AM
02/04/18 09:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,857
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,857
Kendall, FL
Duplicate post*


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: PP 10W30 + WIX 51334XP + e air WIX 10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: M1EP 10W30 + OEM + e air WIX 49670

Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: ChrisD46] #4655675
02/04/18 09:57 AM
02/04/18 09:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,857
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,857
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I believe calcium is one , then more resistant to fuel dilution and greater protection for timing chains - all of these improvements intended for GN DI / DI turbo engines ...


This


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: PP 10W30 + WIX 51334XP + e air WIX 10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: M1EP 10W30 + OEM + e air WIX 49670

Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4655819
02/04/18 11:46 AM
02/04/18 11:46 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,045
Central Wisconsin
dwendt44 Offline
dwendt44  Offline
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,045
Central Wisconsin
Dexos or D1G2 is a performance or test that an oil
needs to pass (along with a stipend to GM) in order
to be certified.
Most oil companies will fiddle with their formulas so
that their products meet or pass GM's test process.
Most synthetics will pass already, some need a small
alteration (calcium) as noted above.

My 2˘


There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.
Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: bbhero] #4655843
02/04/18 12:02 PM
02/04/18 12:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,259
The Garden State
Whimsey Offline
Whimsey  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,259
The Garden State
Originally Posted By: bbhero
There has been significant changes in a number of the big names formulations Luke. Very big drops in calcium for Pennzoil and Quaker State for sure. No longer over 2400 ppm of calcium. They are less than 1500 ppm of calcium now. I don't think Valvoline has had to make any huge changes. They were always around 2000 ppm of calcium. So, they may have dropped it just a bit but nothing huge like Pennzoil did.


I think the use of sodium as an additive in the oil exasperates LSPI. Since Valvoline uses sodium as an additive I'm guessing they have to change that to meet the Dexos 1 gen 2 requirements. Does anybody know for sure?

Whimsey

Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: Whimsey] #4655914
02/04/18 01:02 PM
02/04/18 01:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,433
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,433
Virginia
I have read where a calcium and sodium mix could be responsible for LSPI events in addition to just high calcium which seemed to be the worst for causing LSPI. I'd bet that Valvoline may well have dropped both or just one or the other. Older version Valvoline Synpower was around 2200 ppm of calcium and 400 ppm of sodium. It will interesting to see what they did to help with this circumstance.

So in summary Valvoline didn't have to make as big of a change versus Pennzoil and Quaker State. Where they were using calcium of 2400-2600 ppm and zero sodium and went they both down to around 1400-1000 ppm of calcium.

Last edited by bbhero; 02/04/18 01:05 PM.

Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Mobil Super 5w30 Wix 57356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4656043
02/04/18 03:05 PM
02/04/18 03:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,857
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,857
Kendall, FL
I can't wait to see pqia voa for these new oils.


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: PP 10W30 + WIX 51334XP + e air WIX 10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: M1EP 10W30 + OEM + e air WIX 49670

Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4656149
02/04/18 05:03 PM
02/04/18 05:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,192
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,192
OH
Some blenders appear to have been ahead of the curve in recognizing LSPI as a problem and formulating their synthetic oils accordingly. These oils should easily pass the performance requirements of this updated dexos spec.
As an aside, I wonder what will happen to the engines as these cars are passed down the food chain as cheap used runners to their second and third owners? Will these engines get appropriate oils, or will they be run on unsuitable ones having only the virtue of being cheap which will hasten the demise of them?
I'd suspect the latter and we may be seeing the first generations of mass-market engines where oil selection really does matter and no shortening of drain intervals will help with this.


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Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: fdcg27] #4656171
02/04/18 05:41 PM
02/04/18 05:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,557
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,557
...
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Some blenders appear to have been ahead of the curve in recognizing LSPI as a problem and formulating their synthetic oils accordingly. These oils should easily pass the performance requirements of this updated dexos spec.
As an aside, I wonder what will happen to the engines as these cars are passed down the food chain as cheap used runners to their second and third owners? Will these engines get appropriate oils, or will they be run on unsuitable ones having only the virtue of being cheap which will hasten the demise of them?
I'd suspect the latter and we may be seeing the first generations of mass-market engines where oil selection really does matter and no shortening of drain intervals will help with this.



I would think that most oils will eventually conform to the new d1G2 standards. They should work just fine on most older vehicles.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Does D1G2 mean an updated formulation? [Re: dlundblad] #4656179
02/04/18 05:57 PM
02/04/18 05:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Are the oils the same formulation or did companies have to make some adjustments to get it to pass? I am assuming some companies had to make some adjustments whereas others did not.
One clue: Mobil1 might not have had to change a thing since my 2018 Chevy Owner's Manual says the 1st-Gen dexos1 is fine as long as its Mobil1... any other brand is required to be dexos1 Gen2. They have had low Ca for about 4 years now for LSPI.

The new dexos1 Gen2 timing chain tests should be taken seriously though.
I was reading something recently where it said that ZDDP didn't help chains much, but more moly and boron did, so that might explain the increase in those for some new dexos1 Gen2 formulas we've seen so far.

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