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Furnace questions #4627041
01/07/18 02:53 PM
01/07/18 02:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline OP
supton  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
Right now our house has recirculating hot water, and we're contemplating (again) replacing our house with a modular. It too would have recirculating hot water. At the moment, my system is plumbed to the water supply, and uses plain old water. Works just fine.

In tossing around ideas for the house possibilities, it appears there is enough space to put a garage under the house. So my thoughts naturally turn to, how the heck would I heat it in winter, for the few times I need to do something and don't want to work in the freezing cold? Just putting in another zone seems kinda simple to me. But if the garage is unheated the vast majority of the time, then coolant would be needed.

So the question is, what's the drawback to using coolant instead of water? I'm guessing the coolant ain't free, but I'm not sure if it needs periodic replacement. Or if the lower heat capacity means it works less well, or some other factor that I just don't know about.

[I realize I could heat with electricity, that might be easiest/best for such light usage. Not really interested in wood or pellets.]

Question #2: if I were to insulate my basement, and seal it up, wouldn't it make sense for the furnace to have some sort of intake from the outside world? I realize my contractor & heating installer would probably have the answer, but I'm not sure how to view this--seems like, when the furnace kicks on, it just draws air through every crack and crevice in the house. Which could be good (air exchange) or bad (well, it's still heat loss--that incoming air could be in the living area).


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627070
01/07/18 03:17 PM
01/07/18 03:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
Id run a modulating-condensing boiler with indirect hot water tank. That would handle your house and domestic water needs.

If you put a garage on a slab under the house, the question becomes how tightly sealed will it be?

I have an unheated, detached garage, and even in the coldest of weather it's nice to be out of the wind. Unless you let yourself get soft, it's good enough down to, say 20F.

If I wanted to have such a space, I'd likely use a separate dedicated space heater. Economics of it are fairly irrelevant because the percentage of time running it should be minuscule. If you decide to seal it up enough to heat it like the home, IMO you're asking for other issues.

Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627076
01/07/18 03:28 PM
01/07/18 03:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline OP
supton  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
Yeah, I don't want to seal up the garage and heat it all the time--lots of issues with heat/cool cycles on the cars themselves. I'm not even sure I want to regularly park the cars inside (but wife might have other plans!). However, the house would have a huge walkout basement, and it seems like cheap money & a good boost in value to put in a garage door if I could. Rather than build an outbuilding a hundred feet away, installing an electric drop, etc.

I realize that the garage would need to be sealed from the house (using whatever fire retardant sheetrock is required), whatever is required for code. I'm no good with hammers, so ultimately it's whatever the contractor thinks is a good idea too, for the record.

Modulating-condensing furnace, thanks, will keep that in mind. Many things to investigate.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627197
01/07/18 05:00 PM
01/07/18 05:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,167
Deep in the heart of Jersey
BigCahuna Offline
BigCahuna  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,167
Deep in the heart of Jersey
I would look at putting in an electric heater with a fan. You'll need access to 220 volts, but you won't have to run any pipe or vent it. You could have it on a thermostat, or just a on/off switch if you don't want it on all the time.,,

Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627241
01/07/18 05:40 PM
01/07/18 05:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,629
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,629
Indianapolis, IN
I heat my garage with a small blue-flame gas heater. 30,000 BTU with an adjustable thermostat, and it's vent-less so only gas supply piping to deal with. Works great!


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627342
01/07/18 07:17 PM
01/07/18 07:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,031
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,031
New England
Donít add a zone for limited use as it adds complexity issues to your system. Antifreeze adds further complexity as it is poison and if you check valve /
Pressure valve fails you poison your domestic water supply. No thanks!

My $25 used Delonghi radiant oil filled electric heater melted ice out of wheels and snow blower on a -5f outside night in our insulated garage. Garage was 45f.

Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627345
01/07/18 07:18 PM
01/07/18 07:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,123
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,123
Upstate NY
You can pump in CryoTek antifreeze. It's not free and is not as good heat transfer as water and it's said to be slightly corrosive to valves. It needs to be saved when you open up the system for work.

I would add an air handler zone (hydronic coil with a fan). You can set the thermostat to 40 and without the fan running, not much heat will be lost. When you want heat, turn up the thermostat and turn on the fan. This type of heater will heat up the garage faster than plain baseboard.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Furnace questions [Re: madRiver] #4627351
01/07/18 07:21 PM
01/07/18 07:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,123
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,123
Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Donít add a zone for limited use as it adds complexity issues to your system. Antifreeze adds further complexity as it is poison and if you check valve /
Pressure valve fails you poison your domestic water supply. No thanks!

My $25 used Delonghi radiant oil filled electric heater melted ice out of wheels and snow blower on a -5f outside night in our insulated garage. Garage was 45f.



CryoTek is non toxic and made for boilers assuming something in the boiler will fail allowing boiler water and domestic water to mix.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627352
01/07/18 07:21 PM
01/07/18 07:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,123
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,123
Upstate NY
What kind of fuel?


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Furnace questions [Re: supton] #4627793
01/08/18 06:52 AM
01/08/18 06:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline OP
supton  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
Sounds like electric is probably best. Since it'd be all new construction I should get a new drop from the power company too, so electric heat should be a minor issue.

As to what I'd heat with, not sure at this stage. Gas or oil, flip a coin. Might be nice to go gas and not have an oil tank in the basement.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: Furnace questions [Re: dnewton3] #4627804
01/08/18 07:15 AM
01/08/18 07:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,951
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,951
Illinois
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I heat my garage with a small blue-flame gas heater. 30,000 BTU with an adjustable thermostat, and it's vent-less so only gas supply piping to deal with. Works great!
I use a 20000 BTU vent less blue flame heater for my whole house. It works great as long as you have some dedicated exhaust ventilation going while it's running. My propane cost for heating a 1000 sq ft house in Central Illinois is less than $250 a year.

For a garage they also have infrared ventless heaters.


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual

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