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Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? #4616988
12/28/17 05:55 PM
12/28/17 05:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 582
Connecticut
cheesepuffs Offline OP
cheesepuffs  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 582
Connecticut
Hey guys, so I want to run a PAO oil for my next OCI, but I'm not sure which brands are even really Group IV oils anymore? AmsOil withholds this information as "proprietary". Apparently at least some Motul varieties are hydrocracked according to their MDS sheets. What about Redline?

I'm looking for a 5w-20. This is for my Accord, not a race engine, so it needs to have detergents. What is out there?


2008 Honda Accord Coupe V6
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4616990
12/28/17 05:58 PM
12/28/17 05:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,606
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,606
Great Lakes
I believe Amsoil Signature series is predominantly group IV/V.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4616997
12/28/17 06:06 PM
12/28/17 06:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,060
Ruidoso, NM USA
ammolab Offline
ammolab  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,060
Ruidoso, NM USA
Redline is a yes.


2009 Honda CR-V
2011 BMW R1200R
2005 Kaw Ninja 250
1994 Jeep Wrangler 2.5L
2016 Chevy SS Sport Sedan
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4616998
12/28/17 06:07 PM
12/28/17 06:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,974
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,974
Illinois
No oil is 100% PAO to my knowledge. M1 EP is heavily PAO with some esters and other goodies. Amsoil is probably similar to M1 EP.. We think PU and PP is grp 3


2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617000
12/28/17 06:10 PM
12/28/17 06:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,482
Texas & Global
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,482
Texas & Global
0w20 will come close without paying boutique oil prices ...


2018 Chevy 1500 Z71 4WD
2017 Chevy Tahoe LT 4WD
2014 Fusion Hybrid Titanium
2013 Cruze LTZ - RS Turbo
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617016
12/28/17 06:27 PM
12/28/17 06:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,799
Texas, Mentone for work, Galve...
Bryanccfshr Offline
Bryanccfshr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,799
Texas, Mentone for work, Galve...
Castrol 0w40 is well dosed


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner M1 0w40
2018 Tacoma off-road Castrol 5w30 Magnatec
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617028
12/28/17 06:42 PM
12/28/17 06:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 430
sonoma
burla Offline
burla  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 430
sonoma
Redline by far the most committed to pao/esters and the 5w20 and 10w30 have zero VII's.

or

ravenol 5w20

Last edited by burla; 12/28/17 06:44 PM.
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617039
12/28/17 06:59 PM
12/28/17 06:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,117
MT
jongies3 Offline
jongies3  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,117
MT
German Castrol 0W-30 or 0W-40 have a good amount of PAO on them. Much cheaper and easier to find than Amsoil too.


2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM TG-3600 filter
1969 Mustang Mach 1 5.8 V8: PYB 10W-30 Napa Gold 1515 filter
1997 Ford F-250 HD 7.3 Powerstroke V8: T6 5W-40 FRAM PH-3786 filter
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617057
12/28/17 07:21 PM
12/28/17 07:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,916
Ontario, Canada
M1 EP 0w-20 is majority PAO and probably your least expensive option.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617074
12/28/17 07:39 PM
12/28/17 07:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 287
Georgia
Charlie2015 Offline
Charlie2015  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 287
Georgia
Try some Redline 5w20


1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto (Sold) 214k mi
2009 Scion tC Manual (Daily Driver) 165k mi
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617163
12/28/17 08:43 PM
12/28/17 08:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,132
Waco, TX
100% has been proven to be a bad idea...

it REALLY excels in some areas, but falls short in others.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: Linctex] #4617194
12/28/17 09:09 PM
12/28/17 09:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 582
Connecticut
cheesepuffs Offline OP
cheesepuffs  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 582
Connecticut
Originally Posted By: Linctex
100% has been proven to be a bad idea...

it REALLY excels in some areas, but falls short in others.


Care to elaborate? PAO basestock was literally recommended to me by a real tribologist.

I didn't know M1 EP was high in PAO. I'll probably use that then due to cost effectiveness. Excellent info guys, thanks to all.


2008 Honda Accord Coupe V6
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617239
12/28/17 09:40 PM
12/28/17 09:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
FermeLaPorte Offline
FermeLaPorte  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
Try some Mobil 1


Always Mobil 1
2014 1.6L Nissan Versa Sedan, 5 spd, 5k OCI.
2011 3.5L Chevrolet Impala, Automatic, 5k OCI.
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617240
12/28/17 09:41 PM
12/28/17 09:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
FermeLaPorte Offline
FermeLaPorte  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
Mobil is where Redline and Amsoil get their PAO :P


Always Mobil 1
2014 1.6L Nissan Versa Sedan, 5 spd, 5k OCI.
2011 3.5L Chevrolet Impala, Automatic, 5k OCI.
Re: Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options? [Re: cheesepuffs] #4617245
12/28/17 09:45 PM
12/28/17 09:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs

Care to elaborate? PAO basestock was literally recommended to me by a real tribologist.
I didn't know M1 EP was high in PAO. I'll probably use that then due to cost effectiveness. Excellent info guys, thanks to all.


You can look up Mobil1 Extended Performance EP motor oils, any grade you want, and also other M1 oils like M1 Annual Protection too by looking for
"1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED", which is PAO, on the search website:
https://www.exxonmobil.com/sds Just type in Annual Protection for example in the search box and download the MSDS.

I've noticed that the M1 EP & Annual Protection products in 0w20 flavor, have a lot of PAO, almost all, like 80% of the base oil in there is PAO (exclusive of the additive package chemicals and possibly esters & Group III base oils mixed in). The other grades in the EP and Ann Prot lines have less PAO than the 0w20 ones.

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