Buying PAO/Group IV oil in the US. Options?

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Hey guys, so I want to run a PAO oil for my next OCI, but I'm not sure which brands are even really Group IV oils anymore? AmsOil withholds this information as "proprietary". Apparently at least some Motul varieties are hydrocracked according to their MDS sheets. What about Redline?

I'm looking for a 5w-20. This is for my Accord, not a race engine, so it needs to have detergents. What is out there?


You never mentioned your OCI lengths.
You could run NAPA synthetic for the next 300K in that Honda and sleep like a baby. What matters-most is how often that oil gets changed.


Yes but wouldn't you feel guilty spending $17.45 a 5 quart jug vs $24.97 to $47.95 plus?


In a 20 grade with a basic car I would not feel right ... I figured GM had this in mind when they spec’d 0w20 instead of 5w20 in the commonly used V8 power plants

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Hey guys, so I want to run a PAO oil for my next OCI, but I'm not sure which brands are even really Group IV oils anymore? AmsOil withholds this information as "proprietary". Apparently at least some Motul varieties are hydrocracked according to their MDS sheets. What about Redline?

Definition of the word "hydrocracked" means GroupII conventional oil and/or GroupIII synthetic (not PAO). See the "Review..." on https://bobistheoilguy.com/ the main paper on the page. Hydrocraked oils are in the cheap stuff, so its not bragging rights for Motul. That said, I think some varieties of Motul have plenty of PAO and/or Esters to make them very expensive & *maybe* worth it. Of course the best value deal in an almost-all PAO oil is the M1 EP or Annual Protection 0w20 at Walmart for cheap in 5-quart jugs, can't beat it.
Redline is expensive, something around $12 per quart in gallon jugs bought online (hard to find in stores). Motul similar.

Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
I'm looking for a 5w-20. This is for my Accord, not a race engine, so it needs to have detergents. What is out there?

I'd run any name-brand 0w20 (not 5w20) full synthetic in that Accord. I'd forget targeting PAO-percentage in that older Honda and use the https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline-Ful...Quarts/49660458 Valvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic 0w20 in it, since this oil is dexos1 Gen2 rated, which is very high, and meant for slightly older vehicles to keep the seals flexible to avoid future leaks.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Care to elaborate? PAO basestock was literally recommended to me by a real tribologist.

100% leaves no room for additives.

In reality, blending in a bit of other base stocks for solubility and seal compatibility has value.

Great point to be made. In EVERY motor oil, there is about 75%-85% Base Oil, and the rest "additives". Of the Base Oil, Mobil and other experts have put an effective mix of PAO, GroupIII, and Esters (POE or Polymers or diEsters(?)) to make up the Base Oil.
Lots of PAO (not all) does indicate a tough, long-lasting premium product. In this case, just getting a 0w20 meant for older cars that also meets dexos1 Gen2 is probably about the best you could in an older Accord---> Valv MaxLife 0w20

 

[Linctex]

Redline isn't all PAO.

Maybe it was once early on, but not anymore.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Are all 0W20's primarily pao,is pao required to meet a 0W rating?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Are all 0W20's primarily pao,is pao required to meet a 0W rating?


No.

 

[dwendt44]

You need a full synthetic oil for the 0W rating but
group III oil works for that.

 

[BrocLuno]

And Grp III works very well for changes less than 6,500 miles in most vehicles

Heck even well made Grp II+ like Delo 400 (in some grades) will go 20,000 miles in over the road trucking (OTR) and an engine will last 1,000,000 miles or so. What's the fascination of PAO in a non-race motor ...

 

[Bxnanaz]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
And Grp III works very well for changes less than 6,500 miles in most vehicles

Heck even well made Grp II+ like Delo 400 (in some grades) will go 20,000 miles in over the road trucking (OTR) and an engine will last 1,000,000 miles or so. What's the fascination of PAO in a non-race motor ...


Most of us on here are looking for the best protection possible, no matter how silly it probably is

 

[JFAllen]

Easyest option if you live in Aus or

Both are VII un-modified PAO/Ester or PAO/AN blends with very strong anti-wear add packs.

100% PAO oils tend to have issues with seal hardening/shrinking which is why they're balanced with other base oils to ensure seal compatibility. But in reality in a 2008 Honda V6. Any XW30 synthetic changed regularly will keep it running like clockwork. it's not a high stress motor. No turbo, no ultra high revs or massive compression. You're probably not racing or towing a massive load all day. So don't over think it

Regards
Jordan

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Are all 0W20's primarily pao,is pao required to meet a 0W rating?


No.


No- they are many 0w20 synthetic blends on the market today. Honda, Motorcraft, Pennzoil and CP/76 come to mind.

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: Bxnanaz
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
And Grp III works very well for changes less than 6,500 miles in most vehicles

Heck even well made Grp II+ like Delo 400 (in some grades) will go 20,000 miles in over the road trucking (OTR) and an engine will last 1,000,000 miles or so. What's the fascination of PAO in a non-race motor ...


Most of us on here are looking for the best protection possible, no matter how silly it probably is


Yeah, but that's the rub ... There is no scientific evidence, or even engineering papers, that prove that synthetic is any better at wear protection. There are some older papers that could prove (up to that date) that the actual best wear protection was from premium mono-grade dino oils. Hence the use in really expensive engines like marine, trucks, light aircraft, locomotives and the like. Those engines can run from $10,000 to $500,000. Most run on SAE 30 or 40 - depending on what the bearing clearances were/are from the factory. Most have by-pass filtering if bigger than 500 HP and have life spans measured in many hundred thousand miles, if not a million miles ...

Somehow most folks here equate synthetic with best lubrication. But it's not proven except in extreme situations like heat (>300 degrees) or cold (below -30 degrees). Then the increased lubrication benefits from the fluid holding together and actual flowing where it's needed.

But at modest temps (

There is some thinking that it might be a sophisticated blend with some of all the better base oils and add pak elements. Just depends on temp range and fluid film thickness requirements ...