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Sulfurized Esters #4594977
12/05/17 01:04 PM
12/05/17 01:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline OP
Building3  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
I am getting my 1972 Plymouth Road Runner 440 out of a multi-year hibernation. I am reading through the service manual and for the 440 it says to add a can of Mopar Sulfurized Ester High Performance Additive to each oil change. The recommended oil is either 20w-40 or 20w-50. The oil part is easy. But what is sulfurized ester? Is it still needed in this engine after 45 years? Has oil technology improved so that I don't need it? Will the base oil would be fine? I did a Mopar search for sulfurized ester additive and it is long gone out of the parts book. Any advice would be appreciated. I welcome any opinions on the engine oil too. Thanks.

Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4594979
12/05/17 01:06 PM
12/05/17 01:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,426
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,426
New England
Jeez, weren't OCIs typically 2-3000 miles back then?
That's a lot of sulfurized ester additive.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4594982
12/05/17 01:09 PM
12/05/17 01:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,280
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,280
ON, Canada eh?
Just run a good quality oil meant for Flat Tappets and you will be fine. I would suggest a 5w40 or a 5w50 in Michigan if you intend to run in cold weather or a 10w40 / 20w50 in warmer temps.

Amsoil Z-Rod is a good choice or something similar.
Although it's labeled a 20w50 it flows really well in cold weather. (-40F is the pour point)

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/m.../?code=ZRFQT-EA



Last edited by StevieC; 12/05/17 01:12 PM.

'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - AMSOIL SS 5w20
'06 Santa Fe - 535,000km AMSOIL SS 0w30 / ATF
Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4595007
12/05/17 01:30 PM
12/05/17 01:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Sounds like something from back in the day that's been far superseded by better chemistry. laugh


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4595055
12/05/17 02:05 PM
12/05/17 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline OP
Building3  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Yes you are correct; the change interval was 3,000 miles or three months.

Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Alex_V] #4595057
12/05/17 02:06 PM
12/05/17 02:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
Building3 Offline OP
Building3  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Michigan
That is what I am thinking. The chemistry has got to be much better today especially with synthetic oils.

Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4595068
12/05/17 02:11 PM
12/05/17 02:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,280
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,280
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted By: Building3
That is what I am thinking. The chemistry has got to be much better today especially with synthetic oils.


For Sure thumbsup


'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - AMSOIL SS 5w20
'06 Santa Fe - 535,000km AMSOIL SS 0w30 / ATF
Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4595098
12/05/17 02:27 PM
12/05/17 02:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,426
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,426
New England
Looks like sulfurized esters can be Extreme Pressure additives, maybe a dose of some MoS2 might be a good substitute?
I'd definitely get an opinion from one of the formulators on here before acting on any recommendation from me, I'm a pure amateur.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4595188
12/05/17 03:40 PM
12/05/17 03:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,101
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,101
Michigan
Royal Purple's proprietary Synerlec additive has been theorized on BITOG from time to time as being some kind of a sulfurized ester. It is still in their HPS and racing oils. But not in their ILSAC grades.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4595323
12/05/17 06:22 PM
12/05/17 06:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Might it have been an EP additive to protect a very aggressive flat-tappet cam?


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Sulfurized Esters [Re: Building3] #4595596
12/06/17 01:33 AM
12/06/17 01:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
I was still at school in 1972 but I can think of a few reasons why they wanted you to add this can of Sulphurised Ester.

The first reason is they might just have wanted you to add Ester to the oil as a 'synthetic' base oil. Remember back then, Group I base oils were the norm and early Group I 20W50s wouldn't have had a great deal of resistance to oxidation. However most esters have brilliant resistance to oxidation. The problem with all esters is they are extremely expensive and most of the oil marketers would have been highly resistant to putting them in run-of-the-mill oils. Getting the owner to buy the ester separately might have simply been a way to get around this.

The second reason is that they may have viewed the Sulphurised Ester as an Antioxidant additive. I've never used them as such but I have plenty of experience using Sulphurised Olefins as Antioxidants (in both cases, you're simply using H2S to saturate a double-bond on an backbone). I can't say I'm a great fan of Sulphurised Olefins AOs (they're very smelly and aren't great on seals) but if you're chasing TEOST in a heavy Group II oil, they're often the most cost-effective additive fix.

I don't think Sulphurised Esters would have be seen as an Extreme Pressure fix. You might use something like Sulphurised-PIB for Gear EP but absolutely not in PCMO.

I'm not sure what to recommend for your Plymouth. I would deffo stick with 20W50; don't go thin. The trouble with US 20W50s is they're not very good for what you want (Group II with low ZDDP). What you really need is a nice Middle-East Group I 20W50 SL/CF oil (or better still 20W40). Strangely something Iranian might be perfect for your needs!

Last edited by SonofJoe; 12/06/17 01:37 AM.

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