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Subaru Timing Belts #4573892
11/14/17 03:15 PM
11/14/17 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline OP
artbuc  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Man, am I getting schooled on Subaru or what? With all the many model permutations and conflicting part numbers from various dealers and online catalogs, it is quite a challenge. Regarding timing belts specifically, for some reason, Subaru uses two different belts on their basic 2.5 SOHC non turbo engine. Does not appear to be any rhyme or reason. The two belts differ only in tooth profile. One is curvilinear and one is modified curvilinear. Gates told me using the wrong belt would cause erratic timing and probably throw a CE light. I got an Aisin kit which is not for my car because it has the wrong timing belt. No problem, I just got the right one. Still a tremendous deal. BUT, the kit also includes a cogged idler pulley. I assume I need to get a different cogged idler to match the belt profile, but I can not get a consistent answer from Subaru.

So, with all of that, does anyone know if you can use the same cogged idler pulley on both curvilinear and modified curvilinear belts? When I get the other belt, perhaps the difference in tooth profile will be easy to see.

Last edited by artbuc; 11/14/17 03:22 PM.
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4573897
11/14/17 03:21 PM
11/14/17 03:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,027
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,027
The Midwest
Nasioc.com would have that answer for you.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Wanted: 2019 Ford Ranger
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: skyactiv] #4573909
11/14/17 03:30 PM
11/14/17 03:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline OP
artbuc  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Nasioc.com would have that answer for you.


Right, but I need two more legitimate replies before I can ask a question.

Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4573911
11/14/17 03:30 PM
11/14/17 03:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,684
'murica
Ethan1 Offline
Ethan1  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,684
'murica
Sounds like time to go OEM

Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: Ethan1] #4573936
11/14/17 03:53 PM
11/14/17 03:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline OP
artbuc  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Sounds like time to go OEM


I already bought the OEM idler which should be here in a couple days. Problem is I can not get a consistent story from various Subaru dealers regarding the correct part. They are looking at the same catalogs I am and they all say something different.

My problem is I do not have enough knowledge regarding curvilinear vs modified curvilinear tooth profiles. I found pictures of the tooth profile but no mention of the need for different cam sprockets or cogged idlers. For all I know, you can use either belt on the same cam sprocket.

Last edited by artbuc; 11/14/17 03:56 PM.
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4573985
11/14/17 04:51 PM
11/14/17 04:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 661
MN
14Accent Offline
14Accent  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 661
MN
Never ever seen this on a 2.5 SOHC. Or any Subie t-belt I've done (many, many). Order the Aisin, Conti, whatever kit by year/make/model and install. I have yet to have a failure of any kind.


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2003 Cadillac Seville STS - The winter "beater", it uses the Volt's fuel
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: 14Accent] #4573998
11/14/17 05:02 PM
11/14/17 05:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline OP
artbuc  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: 14Accent
Never ever seen this on a 2.5 SOHC. Or any Subie t-belt I've done (many, many). Order the Aisin, Conti, whatever kit by year/make/model and install. I have yet to have a failure of any kind.


Aisin does not make a kit for the 07 OB 2.5i non turbo SOHC. However, in the kit they have, everything matches exactly except the belt and possibly the cogged idler pulley. The kit supplies a Mitsuboshi CD 304 and I need a CD 307. Common sense tells me a cogged idler designed for a 304 belt will not be right for a 307 belt. It would probably work ok but maybe noisy. I bet when I compare the OEM idler to the one in the kit and then see how the idlers mesh with the two belts, the differences will be apparent.

Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4578915
11/19/17 12:12 PM
11/19/17 12:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 16
Ishpeming, Michigan
poikaa Offline
poikaa  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 16
Ishpeming, Michigan
I just did a 2009 Forester with EJ25 2.5L non-turbo automatic. Used a GATES kit from NAPA and no problems. Did not know about the belt differences so rather interesting.
Job was fairly easy and we lucked out as the engine was running when about 20 teeth of the belt went away! Engine was at idle and just stopped. Thot the valves would be bent but did the belt change anyway.... it works! Runs great!

poikaa

Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: poikaa] #4579150
11/19/17 03:56 PM
11/19/17 03:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline OP
artbuc  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: poikaa
I just did a 2009 Forester with EJ25 2.5L non-turbo automatic. Used a GATES kit from NAPA and no problems. Did not know about the belt differences so rather interesting.
Job was fairly easy and we lucked out as the engine was running when about 20 teeth of the belt went away! Engine was at idle and just stopped. Thot the valves would be bent but did the belt change anyway.... it works! Runs great!

poikaa


Right, your kit included a modified curvilinear 304 belt. But, the sprocket idler is the same one they put in their kits with curvilinear 307 belts for The Outback/Legacy platform. ACDelco and Flennor do the same. I have also confirmed that Subaru uses the exact same sprocket idler groove profile for both curvilinear and modified curvilinear belts. Because the idler is under very low load and registration is not important, there is not any need to have application specific groove profiles.

Did you get the kit ending in “N” which is supposed to have all Japanese parts? Did you use Loctite (included in the kit, right?) on the tensioner bolt? Gates recommends this but the Subaru FSM does not. I wonder if Gates issued their technical bulletin on this as a response to the high rate of Gates tensioner failures? Why didn’t you buy the Aisin TKF006 kit?

How did you hold the crank pulley? Did you buy a new crank bolt or did you check existing bolt to make sure it had not been previously torqued beyond yield?

Last edited by artbuc; 11/19/17 04:04 PM.
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4579280
11/19/17 05:38 PM
11/19/17 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline
Merkava_4  Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Is this for the 2007 Subaru Outback with the 2.5 Liter engine ?

Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: Merkava_4] #4579676
11/20/17 02:47 AM
11/20/17 02:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline OP
artbuc  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Is this for the 2007 Subaru Outback with the 2.5 Liter engine ?


My car is the 07 OB with 2.5 SOHC engine. It takes a curvilinear timing belt. I was responding the post re the Forester which takes a modified curvilinear belt. The Aisin TKF 006 kit is for the Forester among many others. But, everything in that kit will fit the OB except the belt. Buying the Aisin 006 kit is still the best deal, imo, even if you have to spend an extra $50 for a timing belt. Much better quality than a Gates kit and equal quality to OEM at much lower cost.

Last edited by artbuc; 11/20/17 02:48 AM.
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4579844
11/20/17 08:36 AM
11/20/17 08:36 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,531
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
zzyzzx Offline
zzyzzx  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,531
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
I'm adding your story to my long list of reasons to hate Subaru's.

Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4580822
11/21/17 08:48 AM
11/21/17 08:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,698
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,698
Southeast
^^^ apparently you've never worked on a european car


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: artbuc] #4581017
11/21/17 12:46 PM
11/21/17 12:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,012
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,012
Buffalo, NY
Lots of Subarus in my family over the years and I've never heard of this two different T-belt thing for the EJ253. I'm not saying it's not a thing, just that I haven't seen this.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Subaru Timing Belts [Re: JTK] #4581045
11/21/17 01:17 PM
11/21/17 01:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline OP
artbuc  Offline OP
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Originally Posted By: JTK
Lots of Subarus in my family over the years and I've never heard of this two different T-belt thing for the EJ253. I'm not saying it's not a thing, just that I haven't seen this.


Lookup timing belts for Forester/Impreza vs Legacy/Outback for a 2.5 SOHC non turbo for a 2007, for example. Conti belts actually include curvilinear and modified curvilinear designations in their product details under the info tab on Rockauto. You will see the former takes a 304 and the latter takes a 307. Both belts have 233 teeth with the exact same width and length. Only diff is tooth profile which is apparent to the naked eye. I have never personally tried a 304 belt on a 307 application (or vice versa). Maybe you would not know the difference, but Gates says you would. I believe Gates because they use the same cog idler on both engines and I am sure they would call for the same belt if they could. Also, I assume Bando and Mitsuboshi know a little bit about timing belts too.

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