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#4533549 - 10/04/17 07:45 AM NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT
Swifty Offline


Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Nor Cal
Just noticed Amsoil released their new PDS regarding the newest formulations. Not sure if this has already been posted if so apologies.

https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf
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2013 Civic SI Sedan Amsoil 5/30 ASL Fram Ultra 77k miles

2003 Toyota Highlander PP 10/30 M1 Filter (wife's) 160k miles

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#4533556 - 10/04/17 08:02 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1750
Loc: .
Despite Amsoil's claims about Dexos 1 Gen 2 achievements, is it safe to assume these will never be on GM's official list of D1/G2 licensed products?

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#4533562 - 10/04/17 08:13 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Danh]
JustN89 Offline


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 475
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: Danh
Despite Amsoil's claims about Dexos 1 Gen 2 achievements, is it safe to assume these will never be on GM's official list of D1/G2 licensed products?

I would seriously doubt it. If they won't spring for API certification, don't see why they would pay GM for Dexos licensing.

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#4533564 - 10/04/17 08:15 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Danh]
Swifty Offline


Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Nor Cal
Originally Posted By: Danh
Despite Amsoil's claims about Dexos 1 Gen 2 achievements, is it safe to assume these will never be on GM's official list of D1/G2 licensed products?


No doubt the SS line probably won't be but the XL and OE are API certified whether they pay for the DEXOS licensing on the other two... I suspect they would but who knows time will tell. I don't see those PDS listed yet.


Edited by Swifty (10/04/17 08:17 AM)
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2013 Civic SI Sedan Amsoil 5/30 ASL Fram Ultra 77k miles

2003 Toyota Highlander PP 10/30 M1 Filter (wife's) 160k miles

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#4533568 - 10/04/17 08:20 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
JustN89 Offline


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 475
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: Swifty
Originally Posted By: Danh
Despite Amsoil's claims about Dexos 1 Gen 2 achievements, is it safe to assume these will never be on GM's official list of D1/G2 licensed products?


No doubt the SS line probably won't be but the XL and OE are API certified whether they pay for the DEXOS licensing on the other two... I suspect they would but who knows time will tell. I don't see those PDS listed yet.

Will the XL and OE lines claim that it meets Gen 2 qualifications? According to their PDS, they specifically say that their Signature Series provides LSPI protection.

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#4533574 - 10/04/17 08:27 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
Swifty Offline


Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Nor Cal
PDS isn't out that I could see for OE an XL but they are also reformulated as well to combat LSPI. Whether or not they pay for the licensing that is to be determined or call them and ask.
_________________________
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2003 Toyota Highlander PP 10/30 M1 Filter (wife's) 160k miles

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#4533578 - 10/04/17 08:34 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Danh]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3970
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Danh
Despite Amsoil's claims about Dexos 1 Gen 2 achievements, is it safe to assume these will never be on GM's official list of D1/G2 licensed products?


At least in the SS line, Amsoil comes right out and says their sulphated ash levels are too high for dexos1 Gen 2.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
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#4533579 - 10/04/17 08:36 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: JustN89]
Swifty Offline


Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Nor Cal
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: Swifty
Originally Posted By: Danh
Despite Amsoil's claims about Dexos 1 Gen 2 achievements, is it safe to assume these will never be on GM's official list of D1/G2 licensed products?


No doubt the SS line probably won't be but the XL and OE are API certified whether they pay for the DEXOS licensing on the other two... I suspect they would but who knows time will tell. I don't see those PDS listed yet.

Will the XL and OE lines claim that it meets Gen 2 qualifications? According to their PDS, they specifically say that their Signature Series provides LSPI protection.


Here is a read on the XL. Nothing specific indicating they have paid for the licensing, but "they" do indicate it passed the testing.

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/motor-oil/articles/xl-synthetic-motor-oil-stronger-for-lon/
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2003 Toyota Highlander PP 10/30 M1 Filter (wife's) 160k miles

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#4533614 - 10/04/17 09:39 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
zuluplus30 Offline


Registered: 11/23/13
Posts: 358
Loc: Fly-over country
It's been discussed before. SS and XL lines will NEVER meet Dexos specifications because of the SA levels that Amsoil uses in the add packs. They both exceed 1.0% SA. The OE line actually uses the correct "formulation matrix" of base oils composition and additives that would make it eligible for Dexos certification, but Amsoil chooses not to pay for it to be added. So yes, they meet the new LSPI requirements and the new turbocharger deposit tests. But they are not nor will not ever be "Dexos 1/Gen2" certified oils. Take that for what it's worth.

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#4533628 - 10/04/17 10:00 AM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24600
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Swifty
No doubt the SS line probably won't be but the XL and OE are API certified whether they pay for the DEXOS licensing on the other two... I suspect they would but who knows time will tell. I don't see those PDS listed yet.

If Royal Purple can do it, Amsoil sure as heck can, at least for something like OE.
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Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
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#4533918 - 10/04/17 02:20 PM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2569
Loc: MN
zuluplus30, I was wondering about the statement "Fortified with detergents that exceed the dexos1Gen 2 sulfated ash specification." in the PDS document. Thanks for the explaination. Sulphated ash is the overbased detergent sulfonates??? I know they have typically used a high amount of calcium detergents, and they must be getting away from that with all this LSPI concern.

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#4533936 - 10/04/17 02:42 PM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: oil_film_movies]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3970
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
zuluplus30, I was wondering about the statement "Fortified with detergents that exceed the dexos1Gen 2 sulfated ash specification." in the PDS document. Thanks for the explaination. Sulphated ash is the overbased detergent sulfonates??? I know they have typically used a high amount of calcium detergents, and they must be getting away from that with all this LSPI concern.


I think it's possible that they could have kept fairly high calcium levels and quenched LSPI with a lot of ZDDP (since they are not API SN or GF5), high moly, and/or the use of ester base stocks. I don't think Amsoil was ever a big sodium user, so they didn't have to get rid of that. I guess we won't know until we see some VOAs or UOAs, which would still not tell us anything about ester content. The SS oils I looked at still had really high TBNs (12.5), but Molakule had shared with us previously that TBN can also be raised with organic additives.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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#4533999 - 10/04/17 04:07 PM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2569
Loc: MN
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the Mg detergents are not sulfonates (possibly salicylates), but the Ca detergents are sulfonates. Therefore, the 1% limit in dexos1 for SA (Sulfated Ash) would apply to the ~1,000 ppm (1%) Ca we see on UOA/VOAs ??? Many Gen1 dexos1 oils had very high Ca, around 2,000 ppm or so, meaning this 1% limit is for Gen2 only ???

I know you don't want too much sulfur in gasoline, since it forms too much sulfuric acid in the oil, and needs detergents to help neutralize those acids.

Here we see Amsoil exceeding the dexos1 SA limits. Whats the downside of this? I guess they do it to form a long-drain oil. But why would they need to if Mg detergents (I assume) are sans sulfur?

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#4534160 - 10/04/17 08:28 PM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
tsduke Offline


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 135
Loc: Iowa
I had been reading "exceeds dexos1 sulfated ash specifications" as it was better than the dexos1 spec called for. I guess because so much literature says "meets or exceeds".

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#4535539 - 10/06/17 03:54 PM Re: NEW AMSOIL PDS IS OUT [Re: Swifty]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30412
Loc: NJ
This is why Mobil 1 AP is the better choice. Since 2012 they've reduced the SA to .8. M1 AP is about the same price, but is fully certified and good for 20k miles.
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