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2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question #4530268
09/30/17 01:20 PM
09/30/17 01:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 30
Georgia, USA
XL1200RFan Offline OP
XL1200RFan  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 30
Georgia, USA
I've just completed the first oil change on a family members' new 2017 Pacifica [3.6 Pentastar], using a Mopar filter & one 5 quart jug of PP 0W-20. After starting the engine, letting it run a bit, and shutting it down, I checked the oil level. It is exactly one quart low on the dipstick.

The owners manual (and other sources) say it holds 5 quarts. I measured the drained oil and it is 5 quarts on the money. Something is not adding up here.

Any insight from the BITOG "knowledge base"?

Thanks.


John

2016 F-150 3.5 CE EP 5W-30
2014 Volvo XC60 3.2 CE 0W-40
2003 Chevy Express 2500HD 6.0 M1 EP 5W-30
2000 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4.0 VML 10W-30
1986 F-350 4x4 7.5 VML 10W-30

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530283
09/30/17 01:36 PM
09/30/17 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,541
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,541
Canyon County Idaho
Let is sit a while[15 minutes] then recheck and go from there.


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530305
09/30/17 02:01 PM
09/30/17 02:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 115
US
TheOilWizard Online content
TheOilWizard  Online Content

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 115
US
Yep, you're not giving the oil a chance to drain back in the sump after stopping the engine.

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: TheOilWizard] #4530326
09/30/17 02:31 PM
09/30/17 02:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 30
Georgia, USA
XL1200RFan Offline OP
XL1200RFan  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 30
Georgia, USA
Thanks for the input.

After 15 minutes, no change to speak of...after 1 hour, the oil level is now at the the mid-point between Full & Add; so the trend is good. A few more hours will show if it makes it to "Full".

On the Pacifica Forum some owners claim it takes "overnight" for the oil level to reach the Full mark. It appears to be complicated by the fact that some earlier Pentastar V6s had 6 quart sumps. The Pacifica in question was built about 2 months ago, so multiple sources appear to confirm this latest version of the 3.6L it is 5 quarts for sure.

Having worked in both the automotive & aviation world for a long time, I just haven't run into any piston engines that took so long to drain back. I've been around some gas turbine Auxiliary Power Units that were clever at "oil hiding"... it could drive people crazy and result in over or under-servicing.

This slow-drainback characteristic will no doubt cause some overservicing issues by those who go by the dipstick rather than the manual.

John


John

2016 F-150 3.5 CE EP 5W-30
2014 Volvo XC60 3.2 CE 0W-40
2003 Chevy Express 2500HD 6.0 M1 EP 5W-30
2000 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4.0 VML 10W-30
1986 F-350 4x4 7.5 VML 10W-30

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530357
09/30/17 03:21 PM
09/30/17 03:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,247
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,247
MN
Originally Posted By: XL1200RFan
This slow-drainback characteristic will no doubt cause some overservicing issues by those who go by the dipstick rather than the manual.
I couldn't agree more. I had the same experience a few days ago, in my case with a 2018 Equinox (1.5L turbo). The GM Owner's Manual warns explicitly about very slow drain-down. Does your Chrysler manual warn about this?

I've never seen it this bad either. New engines mostly I guess. We could say its the VVT system, or in some cases the turbo bearing galleys.

I don't know what quick oil change shops will do. They don't have all day for the oil to drain out the plug. So they end up draining out only 80%-90% and then overfilling if they look up and put in the "spec" amount!

As DIYers, we need to only put in 1 quart less than spec, just in case it all didn't drain out while we had it in our own garage. I overfilled mine thinking 10 minutes of draining out the plug was enough. Had to let some out. How long did you let your oil drain out the plug? It sounds like you got it all out, unlike what I did.

If we take our new vehicles in the dealership, I'm going to tell them to put in 1 quart less than full-spec so they don't overfill it. I know they can't drain for 2 hours, so it seems like thats the only way to avoid overfilling.

As a side note, what really complicates 2018 Equinox 1.5L oil changes is the fact that AWD models have 5 quarts, and 2WD ones (same engine!) have 4 quarts, as if all the other issues aren't confusing enough. Weird, man.

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530377
09/30/17 03:43 PM
09/30/17 03:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,316
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,316
WI
That's weird that it only takes 5. My Cherokee with the 3.2 (smaller version of the 3.6) takes every bit of 6 quarts.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530467
09/30/17 05:31 PM
09/30/17 05:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,551
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
JC1 Offline
JC1  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,551
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
My 2015 Caravan takes 6 quarts.


2015 Grand Caravan SXT Plus 5w-20 Valvoline SynPower/Fram Ultra Filter
1997 Honda Civic CX 5w-30 PPPP/Fram Ultra Filter
Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: HoosierJeeper] #4530492
09/30/17 06:02 PM
09/30/17 06:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 919
Colorado
newtoncd8 Offline
newtoncd8  Offline

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 919
Colorado
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
That's weird that it only takes 5. My Cherokee with the 3.2 (smaller version of the 3.6) takes every bit of 6 quarts.


Despite bearing the Pentastar name, it has been redesigned.

From Allpar: The redesigned V6 gasoline engine is the most powerful for any minivan, with 287 horsepower and 262 pound-feet of torque. Despite the increased power and feature set of the engine, it weighs four pounds less than the prior generation including 13 pounds of new content weighing in at 326 pounds. This included thin-wall die-cast components, a lighter windage tray and oil pan (now single piece), and cutting the sump from a six-quart fill to a lower-cost and lighter-weight five-quart fill. The latter is handy for people who buy their own oil, since the five-quart container is a bargain compared with single quarts.


12 Jeep GC, 04 Lexus RX330, 77 MG-B
11 Audi A4, 01 Audi A4
99 Lexus ES300, 98 Isuzu Trooper
94 & 91 Acura Integra, 88 Toyota Camry,
84 Honda Accord, 70 Pontiac LeMans,
62 Ford Galaxy 500
Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530495
09/30/17 06:05 PM
09/30/17 06:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 508
Southern Indiana
Mantooth Offline
Mantooth  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 508
Southern Indiana
I have two Pentas - they both hold 6qts.

I wonder why the pacificas are different.


'14 Durango AWD 3.6,(mine) Hav ProDS 5w30/Napa Gold
'15 Journey AWD 3.6, (wife's) Napa Syn 5w20/Napa Gold
'01 F250 4x4 7.3PSD, 126k, M1 TDT 5w40/MC

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530594
09/30/17 08:26 PM
09/30/17 08:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,316
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,316
WI
Thanks for the info...sounds like they've redone them a bit then.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4530639
09/30/17 09:15 PM
09/30/17 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline
Merkava_4  Offline

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
My owner's manual says 4.5 quarts but 5 quarts gets it to the full line. I go by the dipstick.

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: Merkava_4] #4531012
10/01/17 09:49 AM
10/01/17 09:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 30
Georgia, USA
XL1200RFan Offline OP
XL1200RFan  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 30
Georgia, USA
Just a quick update on this thread:

I checked the oil level every couple of hours after performing the oil change. It stabilized within 1/8" of the Full mark after about 6-8 hours. No change after sitting overnight.

Note: I let the oil drain about one hour...I had not loosened the oil filter housing to facilitate draining, but when I removed the filter it seemed pretty well drained. (On my Volvo XC60 with the FoMoCo 3.2L, loosening the filter housing on that engine family is recommended since it opens an elastomeric check valve in the base of the oil filter housing to allow complete draining.)

There is no comment in the owners manual that I could find cautioning about this slow-drainback characteristic.

It is pure speculation on my part, but it seems to me the Pentastar Upgrade engine, by design, retains some oil (presumably in the heads) for one reason or another. It does not drain back quickly via traditional oil return holes but slowly seeps past various close-tolerance parts.

As previously noted, for the uninitiated (DIY or express lube shops) this characteristic is asking for 1 quart overservicing. Whether or not having an extra quart of oil will cause issues like oil aeration or static seal leaks remains to be seen.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in with their comments.

John


John

2016 F-150 3.5 CE EP 5W-30
2014 Volvo XC60 3.2 CE 0W-40
2003 Chevy Express 2500HD 6.0 M1 EP 5W-30
2000 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4.0 VML 10W-30
1986 F-350 4x4 7.5 VML 10W-30

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4531037
10/01/17 10:14 AM
10/01/17 10:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,247
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,247
MN
Originally Posted By: XL1200RFan
I checked the oil level every couple of hours after performing the oil change. It stabilized within 1/8" of the Full mark after about 6-8 hours. No change after sitting overnight.
Note: I let the oil drain about one hour...

You have more patience than me! I should have let it drain for an hour; I only did 10 minutes or less, not sure. My mistake on my 2018 Equinox. I didn't read the Owner's Manual first.

Your scenario makes sense actually. Oil draining out was hot, so it drained completely in 1 hour. Then, when you added oil, it was cool, and something in these engine designs doesn't let cool viscous oil drain all the way down to the sump until hours later!

You are right about the Quickie Lube universe who will over or under-fill. Also DIYers like me who aren't reading their GM Owner's Manual.

There was one warning about this kind of thing on a past BITOG thread. Involving the Ford 2.7L Ecoboost V6. The following illustrates the weirdness you can get into (Spoiler Alert: the DIYer emptied out 10 quarts --- overfilled --- from a 6-quart sump!!!):

"Last time I stressed the importance of waiting 15 minutes before checking the oil in a 2015 Ford F-150 with the 2.7-liter EcoBoost engine, which just happens to be the truck we've got. Ford sent out a Special Service Memo (SSM #45195) to their dealers to highlight the issue, but owners like us didn't get notified.

I found out the hard way when I decided to change the oil in the F-150 myself. After I'd finished with the draining and the filter change, I poured in the required six quarts, checked the dipstick and found it to be 100 percent bone dry. I couldn't believe it. I checked again and got the same result.

Dumbfounded, I looked at my 12-quart drain pan. It should have been half full, but it was brimming with what turned out to be 10 quarts of used oil. Ten!

At this point I figured the 6-quart capacity in the manual had to be a misprint. How else could six quarts fail to make an impression on the dipstick after 10 quarts had just drained out? That's when I did some Googling and found a video posted by a Ford technician that laid it all out.

By this time the recommended 15 minutes had passed. I went back outside and checked again. Bingo. The oil level read full. Clearly, the Ford tech that changed the oil last June hadn't gotten the memo or seen the video.

But this was not the only weird aspect of this oil change. The 2.7-liter EcoBoost held other surprises in store, many of them pleasant. In the end, it was a surprisingly easy job once I understood the nuances."
-- https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2015/...-screw-ups.html

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: XL1200RFan] #4531056
10/01/17 10:40 AM
10/01/17 10:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,034
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,034
USA
What I like to do is drive it somewhere, walk around the store awhile, then check the oil when I come back to the car.

Also, Walmart carries the Fram Ultra for your Pentastar smile

Re: 2017 Pacifica First Oil Change - Oil Qty Question [Re: slacktide_bitog] #4531097
10/01/17 11:48 AM
10/01/17 11:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,247
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,247
MN
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
What I like to do is drive it somewhere, walk around the store awhile, then check the oil when I come back to the car. Also, Walmart carries the Fram Ultra for your Pentastar smile
Thats not enough time for the Pentastar here and my '18 Equinox. You need 2 hours minimum. I know, too strange.

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