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Why DIrect Injection is really bad! #4440401
06/24/17 03:26 PM
06/24/17 03:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 20
Boise, Idaho
JDMHero47 Offline OP
JDMHero47  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 20
Boise, Idaho
When I was doing my intake manifold cleaning, I was shell-shocked by how much oil and [censored] was in the intake tracts. I'm hoping this can help future DI engine owners understand what they are facing.

I was also super-happy that my intake valves were ok because thankfully Honda back then wasn't stupid and hadn't fallen for the false promises and company greed that comes from using a single set of Direct Injectors.

FYI, if you own a Toyota with D4-S or are a lucky owner of an Audi with the 2.0T in Eastern Europe - you guys all have a set of port injectors in order to meet and beat the emissions regulations that don't allow the type of particulate emissions that DI is responsible for. Smart choice!

Pics --

The seal that faces the top of the intake manifold


Intake Manifold cover. The dark crusty stuff is the soot marking the EGR system.



Intake Manifold plenum center part. By design it catches the majority of the oil coming in from PCV system. This is 202.5k mi. of collection. It took 4 hours with Throttle body cleaner and a toothbrush to take the heat-caked oil off.


The following are each of the 6 cylinder intake ports on the engine. Just think what my intake valves would look like if the injector wasn't there to keep them clean. Based on this, I can say there's absolutely no way in [censored] a DI engine can survive for long without a 100.00% removal of all contaminants from intake air (FYI, this is impossible as of right now in production cars. An OCC is a must-have if you plan on buying a DI car.)








Last edited by JDMHero47; 06/24/17 03:27 PM.
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440409
06/24/17 03:34 PM
06/24/17 03:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,199
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Online sick
Kamele0N  Online Sick
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,199
Slovenia EU
So Audi is assembling different 2.0 TFSi engines for the West and East europe?


2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440418
06/24/17 03:43 PM
06/24/17 03:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,297
Raleigh ,NC CSA
rshaw125 Offline
rshaw125  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,297
Raleigh ,NC CSA
202k miles. Looks pretty good.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440421
06/24/17 03:46 PM
06/24/17 03:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,024
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,024
Atlanta,GA
Uh..there are no false promises around Direct Injection. It offers superior engine performance vs port injection. Common rail diesel tech is the most obvious example.

Sure some engines have "some" build up and some early models had significant amount of it but overall it's not a big deal.


'15 435i - BMW branded Shell 0w30.
Prev
'10 335d
'06 330i
'03 330i
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440422
06/24/17 03:47 PM
06/24/17 03:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,002
Michigan
interesting pictures. What oil have you been running in it?


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440423
06/24/17 03:55 PM
06/24/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 910
California
Kool1 Offline
Kool1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 910
California
Some people say an oil catch can in line with the PCV valve will prevent the carbon buildup.

Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: Kamele0N] #4440429
06/24/17 04:05 PM
06/24/17 04:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,301
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,301
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
So Audi is assembling different 2.0 TFSi engines for the West and East europe?

Not sure if it's an east vs west thing, but it is true that VAG is using different versions of their engines equipped with secondary port fuel injectors in order to meet emissions requirements in some countries. USA isn't one of those countries.

A side benefit of having this secondary injector is that it helps wash off the valves.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440431
06/24/17 04:06 PM
06/24/17 04:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,301
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,301
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: JDMHero47
When I was doing my intake manifold cleaning,

What engine is this? Sorry if I missed it...


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440453
06/24/17 04:41 PM
06/24/17 04:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
Heck, I've decided I don't even want ODBII... So all my stuff will be pre-1995 from now on smile

As some of you know, I just got a super clean 1993 F-150 extended cab 4x4 with only 83K laugh

I'll just keep looking for other early garage queens laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440454
06/24/17 04:41 PM
06/24/17 04:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,278
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,278
San Antonio, TX
I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that based on your car.


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440468
06/24/17 05:05 PM
06/24/17 05:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,858
Kalifornia Kollective
So I didn't read it in the original post, but someone mentioned 202K ... I'd say that engine looks fine for 202K smile

Sure a little clean-up will be nice, but I don't see any restricted air flow of anything smile

However, I get your point and I'm not a fan of DI. I'll stay with port injection for the foreseeable future smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440477
06/24/17 05:19 PM
06/24/17 05:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,322
Somewhere
itguy08 Offline
itguy08  Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,322
Somewhere
202k and you're [censored] and moaning about it? Really? Seriously? It's really nothing to worry about and probably would go another 202k wothout issue.


I also call [censored] on the rest of the "you need an intake cleaning on all DI cars" nonsense. Early VW, Audi, BMW, yes. But the rest of the world has figured it out and it's not an issue. Heck, Ford probably has the most DI cars on the road and you don't hear of them really being issues. And yes those engines are getting the miles on them now (been around since late 2009).

Last edited by itguy08; 06/24/17 05:21 PM.
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440508
06/24/17 06:02 PM
06/24/17 06:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
KL31 Offline
KL31  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
What's this have to do with DI? Port injection looks like this after that many miles too.


95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn
Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: KL31] #4440515
06/24/17 06:17 PM
06/24/17 06:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,762
Houston, Tex
TooManyWheels Offline
TooManyWheels  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,762
Houston, Tex
Originally Posted By: KL31
What's this have to do with DI? Port injection looks like this after that many miles too.


Exactly. My Chevy 5.7 Vortec looks like this too.

Re: Why DIrect Injection is really bad! [Re: JDMHero47] #4440519
06/24/17 06:25 PM
06/24/17 06:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 49
NC, USA
SpecM Offline
SpecM  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 49
NC, USA
Ummmmm..... that doesnt look too bad...

This looks like a Honda J series. All but the very newest Honda Js are "regular" fuel injection. So im 95% sure this is NOT a picure of a DI issue.

What kind of car is this?

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