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Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two #4437499
06/21/17 10:03 AM
06/21/17 10:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
MCompact Online content OP
MCompact  Online Content OP
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
At 32,800 miles the Michelin PSS on my M235i were well and truly worn out. I considered other options but went back to the OEM PSS. I would have gone with the new Pilot 4S but that tire isn't available in the sizes I need(225/40ZR18 front, 245/35ZR18 rear). I really saw no reason to change, considering that the OEM PSS tires survived four track days and one test and tune night at the local 1/8 mile strip. I had the car aligned while I was at it and I was glad I did- front and rear toe were out of spec as was rear camber.


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact] #4437511
06/21/17 10:15 AM
06/21/17 10:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,259
PV Az
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,259
PV Az
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: AZjeff] #4437521
06/21/17 10:26 AM
06/21/17 10:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
MCompact Online content OP
MCompact  Online Content OP
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?


I never have, but that's an excellent idea; I will in the future.


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact] #4437553
06/21/17 11:02 AM
06/21/17 11:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,235
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,235
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?


I never have, but that's an excellent idea; I will in the future.

I guess track miles would be a better measurement, as some track days have much more mileage than others. I guess the BMW wore them pretty evenly? I get noticeable outside edge wear from autocrossing but my cars have always had a good amount of body roll.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 218km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 15km 0W20
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact] #4437685
06/21/17 01:36 PM
06/21/17 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,424
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,424
PA
Originally Posted By: MCompact
At 32,800 miles the Michelin PSS on my M235i were well and truly worn out. I considered other options but went back to the OEM PSS. I would have gone with the new Pilot 4S but that tire isn't available in the sizes I need(225/40ZR18 front, 245/35ZR18 rear). I really saw no reason to change, considering that the OEM PSS tires survived four track days and one test and tune night at the local 1/8 mile strip. I had the car aligned while I was at it and I was glad I did- front and rear toe were out of spec as was rear camber.

Okay wait, hold on.

32,800 miles, four track days, and several drag passes, at least some of which was on bad alignment. You're running a staggered set, so no rotation. And I'm assuming the rears are the ones that are done, so the fronts would still have had a few more miles in 'em. Correct?

That is a LOT of treadlife for this kind of tire with that kind of use.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: d00df00d] #4437713
06/21/17 02:09 PM
06/21/17 02:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
MCompact Online content OP
MCompact  Online Content OP
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

32,800 miles, four track days, and several drag passes, at least some of which was on bad alignment. You're running a staggered set, so no rotation. And I'm assuming the rears are the ones that are done, so the fronts would still have had a few more miles in 'em. Correct?

That is a LOT of treadlife for this kind of tire with that kind of use.


Actually the fronts were worse; the LF was showing a bit of cord...


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact] #4437808
06/21/17 03:59 PM
06/21/17 03:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
dgunay Offline
dgunay  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
Aren't these tires rated 30k miles? You have put almost 33k miles with several track days and drag strips.

If you really want to get more mileage, you should have two different wheel/tire sets, one set for track/autox, one set for daily driving (with higher treadwear).

By the way, I am really impressed with Michelin PSS tires, the SI wasn't able to lock up the oem brakes when the tires are warm. I used them 5k miles before I sold my car.


2009 Acura CSX - PUP 0w20 / Fram XG7317 / Maxlife ATF
2018 Kawasaki Z650 - Motul 4T 5100 10w40 / OEM Oil Filter
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: IndyIan] #4437811
06/21/17 04:02 PM
06/21/17 04:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
dgunay Offline
dgunay  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?


I never have, but that's an excellent idea; I will in the future.

I guess track miles would be a better measurement, as some track days have much more mileage than others. I guess the BMW wore them pretty evenly? I get noticeable outside edge wear from autocrossing but my cars have always had a good amount of body roll.


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.


2009 Acura CSX - PUP 0w20 / Fram XG7317 / Maxlife ATF
2018 Kawasaki Z650 - Motul 4T 5100 10w40 / OEM Oil Filter
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: dgunay] #4438010
06/21/17 08:33 PM
06/21/17 08:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
MCompact Online content OP
MCompact  Online Content OP
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,549
KY
Originally Posted By: dgunay
Aren't these tires rated 30k miles? You have put almost 33k miles with several track days and drag strips.

If you really want to get more mileage, you should have two different wheel/tire sets, one set for track/autox, one set for daily driving (with higher treadwear).

By the way, I am really impressed with Michelin PSS tires, the SI wasn't able to lock up the oem brakes when the tires are warm. I used them 5k miles before I sold my car.


I'm not complaining- I'm actually very impressed. I did have two sets of wheels/tires when I owned my Mazdaspeed3, but in that case, I was able to find some pristine take-off wheels on eBay and I won a set of tires for coaching at Street Survival.


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: dgunay] #4438278
06/22/17 06:53 AM
06/22/17 06:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dgunay


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.


This! The BMW 1er and 2er really don't come with enough front camber, even for street use. My car only came with 0.5 deg of front camber, ridiculous for a performance RWD car. That is one of the big reasons why these cars understeer so badly. With the addition of camber plates and M3 front control arms I am now at -2.2 degrees in the front and front tire wear is much better, also got rid of a lot of the factory designed understeer. Also going to a 245 in the front helped.


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: mightymousetech] #4438483
06/22/17 11:03 AM
06/22/17 11:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
dgunay Offline
dgunay  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 635
Toronto
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: dgunay


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.


This! The BMW 1er and 2er really don't come with enough front camber, even for street use. My car only came with 0.5 deg of front camber, ridiculous for a performance RWD car. That is one of the big reasons why these cars understeer so badly. With the addition of camber plates and M3 front control arms I am now at -2.2 degrees in the front and front tire wear is much better, also got rid of a lot of the factory designed understeer. Also going to a 245 in the front helped.


Few years ago, outside edge of the tires were completely worn out on my SI after two track days due to lack of camber in the front. Lesson learned the hard way. It comes with 0 degree in the front, -1.5 in the rear, 61:39 weight ratio and cambers are not adjustable without aftermarket parts. It is the worst alignment combo for a fwd car for spirited driving. I guess car manufacturers don't want average drivers to get oversteer, no matter if it is fwd or rwd. The reason is, understeering is more forgiving and requires less driving skills if you make a mistake.

CSX is my daily driver but it still bothers me to drive with 0 camber in the front. That's why I bought front camber bolts, and now I have -1.6F / -1.4R camber for daily driving, and I put 9th gen 2014 SI rear sway bar (20 mm) to get more oversteer. OE rear sway bar is 11 mm. Car feels like it has more grip and it is way more balanced now.


2009 Acura CSX - PUP 0w20 / Fram XG7317 / Maxlife ATF
2018 Kawasaki Z650 - Motul 4T 5100 10w40 / OEM Oil Filter
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact] #4438508
06/22/17 11:26 AM
06/22/17 11:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,204
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,204
Sunny Florida
FWIW, my sig car is very tail happy with the factory stability control defeated. It was the favorite of all the drivers when Skip Barber ran the SRT Track Experience. But it eats tires like candy. At least they wear very evenly. The front suspension has wicked camber at full lock, actually slides while backing up sometimes!

Back on topic, my PSS's are getting there, I am about to replace them so I am following this subject closely.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: dgunay] #4438515
06/22/17 11:34 AM
06/22/17 11:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dgunay
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: dgunay


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.


This! The BMW 1er and 2er really don't come with enough front camber, even for street use. My car only came with 0.5 deg of front camber, ridiculous for a performance RWD car. That is one of the big reasons why these cars understeer so badly. With the addition of camber plates and M3 front control arms I am now at -2.2 degrees in the front and front tire wear is much better, also got rid of a lot of the factory designed understeer. Also going to a 245 in the front helped.


Few years ago, outside edge of the tires were completely worn out on my SI after two track days due to lack of camber in the front. Lesson learned the hard way. It comes with 0 degree in the front, -1.5 in the rear, 61:39 weight ratio and cambers are not adjustable without aftermarket parts. It is the worst alignment combo for a fwd car for spirited driving. I guess car manufacturers don't want average drivers to get oversteer, no matter if it is fwd or rwd. The reason is, understeering is more forgiving and requires less driving skills if you make a mistake.

CSX is my daily driver but it still bothers me to drive with 0 camber in the front. That's why I bought front camber bolts, and now I have -1.6F / -1.4R camber for daily driving, and I put 9th gen 2014 SI rear sway bar (20 mm) to get more oversteer. OE rear sway bar is 11 mm. Car feels like it has more grip and it is way more balanced now.


Agreed My Civic is my winter/track car. I put KW coilovers in and STILL run a set of factory camber bolts in the summer. I am around -2.5 in the front with those mods. Then just loosen the camber bolts and pull the struts back out for the winter, run about -1.0.

Last edited by mightymousetech; 06/22/17 11:38 AM.

Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL

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