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#4437499 - 06/21/17 11:03 AM Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 4114
Loc: KY
At 32,800 miles the Michelin PSS on my M235i were well and truly worn out. I considered other options but went back to the OEM PSS. I would have gone with the new Pilot 4S but that tire isn't available in the sizes I need(225/40ZR18 front, 245/35ZR18 rear). I really saw no reason to change, considering that the OEM PSS tires survived four track days and one test and tune night at the local 1/8 mile strip. I had the car aligned while I was at it and I was glad I did- front and rear toe were out of spec as was rear camber.
_________________________
Mine:
2014 M235i
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2016 i3 REX
2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...

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#4437511 - 06/21/17 11:15 AM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact]
AZjeff Offline


Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 2644
Loc: PV Az
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?
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#4437521 - 06/21/17 11:26 AM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: AZjeff]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 4114
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?


I never have, but that's an excellent idea; I will in the future.
_________________________
Mine:
2014 M235i
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2016 i3 REX
2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...

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#4437553 - 06/21/17 12:02 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9092
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?


I never have, but that's an excellent idea; I will in the future.

I guess track miles would be a better measurement, as some track days have much more mileage than others. I guess the BMW wore them pretty evenly? I get noticeable outside edge wear from autocrossing but my cars have always had a good amount of body roll.
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#4437685 - 06/21/17 02:36 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11213
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: MCompact
At 32,800 miles the Michelin PSS on my M235i were well and truly worn out. I considered other options but went back to the OEM PSS. I would have gone with the new Pilot 4S but that tire isn't available in the sizes I need(225/40ZR18 front, 245/35ZR18 rear). I really saw no reason to change, considering that the OEM PSS tires survived four track days and one test and tune night at the local 1/8 mile strip. I had the car aligned while I was at it and I was glad I did- front and rear toe were out of spec as was rear camber.

Okay wait, hold on.

32,800 miles, four track days, and several drag passes, at least some of which was on bad alignment. You're running a staggered set, so no rotation. And I'm assuming the rears are the ones that are done, so the fronts would still have had a few more miles in 'em. Correct?

That is a LOT of treadlife for this kind of tire with that kind of use.
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#4437713 - 06/21/17 03:09 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: d00df00d]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 4114
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

32,800 miles, four track days, and several drag passes, at least some of which was on bad alignment. You're running a staggered set, so no rotation. And I'm assuming the rears are the ones that are done, so the fronts would still have had a few more miles in 'em. Correct?

That is a LOT of treadlife for this kind of tire with that kind of use.


Actually the fronts were worse; the LF was showing a bit of cord...
_________________________
Mine:
2014 M235i
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2016 i3 REX
2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...

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#4437808 - 06/21/17 04:59 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact]
dgunay Offline


Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 612
Loc: Toronto
Aren't these tires rated 30k miles? You have put almost 33k miles with several track days and drag strips.

If you really want to get more mileage, you should have two different wheel/tire sets, one set for track/autox, one set for daily driving (with higher treadwear).

By the way, I am really impressed with Michelin PSS tires, the SI wasn't able to lock up the oem brakes when the tires are warm. I used them 5k miles before I sold my car.
_________________________
2009 Acura CSX (K20Z2 Auto)
PUP 5w30 / M1-110 / Maxlife ATF
Koni STR.T Struts / Tein S-Tech Springs / 20mm OEM RSB
Cooper Zeon RS3-A / Continental WinterContact SI

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#4437811 - 06/21/17 05:02 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: IndyIan]
dgunay Offline


Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 612
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Did you happen to measure how much wear you get from a track day?


I never have, but that's an excellent idea; I will in the future.

I guess track miles would be a better measurement, as some track days have much more mileage than others. I guess the BMW wore them pretty evenly? I get noticeable outside edge wear from autocrossing but my cars have always had a good amount of body roll.


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.
_________________________
2009 Acura CSX (K20Z2 Auto)
PUP 5w30 / M1-110 / Maxlife ATF
Koni STR.T Struts / Tein S-Tech Springs / 20mm OEM RSB
Cooper Zeon RS3-A / Continental WinterContact SI

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#4438010 - 06/21/17 09:33 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: dgunay]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 4114
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: dgunay
Aren't these tires rated 30k miles? You have put almost 33k miles with several track days and drag strips.

If you really want to get more mileage, you should have two different wheel/tire sets, one set for track/autox, one set for daily driving (with higher treadwear).

By the way, I am really impressed with Michelin PSS tires, the SI wasn't able to lock up the oem brakes when the tires are warm. I used them 5k miles before I sold my car.


I'm not complaining- I'm actually very impressed. I did have two sets of wheels/tires when I owned my Mazdaspeed3, but in that case, I was able to find some pristine take-off wheels on eBay and I won a set of tires for coaching at Street Survival.
_________________________
Mine:
2014 M235i
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2016 i3 REX
2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...

Top
#4438278 - 06/22/17 07:53 AM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: dgunay]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dgunay


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.


This! The BMW 1er and 2er really don't come with enough front camber, even for street use. My car only came with 0.5 deg of front camber, ridiculous for a performance RWD car. That is one of the big reasons why these cars understeer so badly. With the addition of camber plates and M3 front control arms I am now at -2.2 degrees in the front and front tire wear is much better, also got rid of a lot of the factory designed understeer. Also going to a 245 in the front helped.
_________________________
Mighty Mouse Tech
Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL

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#4438483 - 06/22/17 12:03 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: mightymousetech]
dgunay Offline


Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 612
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: dgunay


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.


This! The BMW 1er and 2er really don't come with enough front camber, even for street use. My car only came with 0.5 deg of front camber, ridiculous for a performance RWD car. That is one of the big reasons why these cars understeer so badly. With the addition of camber plates and M3 front control arms I am now at -2.2 degrees in the front and front tire wear is much better, also got rid of a lot of the factory designed understeer. Also going to a 245 in the front helped.


Few years ago, outside edge of the tires were completely worn out on my SI after two track days due to lack of camber in the front. Lesson learned the hard way. It comes with 0 degree in the front, -1.5 in the rear, 61:39 weight ratio and cambers are not adjustable without aftermarket parts. It is the worst alignment combo for a fwd car for spirited driving. I guess car manufacturers don't want average drivers to get oversteer, no matter if it is fwd or rwd. The reason is, understeering is more forgiving and requires less driving skills if you make a mistake.

CSX is my daily driver but it still bothers me to drive with 0 camber in the front. That's why I bought front camber bolts, and now I have -1.6F / -1.4R camber for daily driving, and I put 9th gen 2014 SI rear sway bar (20 mm) to get more oversteer. OE rear sway bar is 11 mm. Car feels like it has more grip and it is way more balanced now.
_________________________
2009 Acura CSX (K20Z2 Auto)
PUP 5w30 / M1-110 / Maxlife ATF
Koni STR.T Struts / Tein S-Tech Springs / 20mm OEM RSB
Cooper Zeon RS3-A / Continental WinterContact SI

Top
#4438508 - 06/22/17 12:26 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: MCompact]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 18954
Loc: Sunny Florida
FWIW, my sig car is very tail happy with the factory stability control defeated. It was the favorite of all the drivers when Skip Barber ran the SRT Track Experience. But it eats tires like candy. At least they wear very evenly. The front suspension has wicked camber at full lock, actually slides while backing up sometimes!

Back on topic, my PSS's are getting there, I am about to replace them so I am following this subject closely.
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#4438515 - 06/22/17 12:34 PM Re: Michelin Pilot Super Sports- Take Two [Re: dgunay]
mightymousetech Offline


Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 1444
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dgunay
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: dgunay


You need more negative camber to avoid outer edge wear.


This! The BMW 1er and 2er really don't come with enough front camber, even for street use. My car only came with 0.5 deg of front camber, ridiculous for a performance RWD car. That is one of the big reasons why these cars understeer so badly. With the addition of camber plates and M3 front control arms I am now at -2.2 degrees in the front and front tire wear is much better, also got rid of a lot of the factory designed understeer. Also going to a 245 in the front helped.


Few years ago, outside edge of the tires were completely worn out on my SI after two track days due to lack of camber in the front. Lesson learned the hard way. It comes with 0 degree in the front, -1.5 in the rear, 61:39 weight ratio and cambers are not adjustable without aftermarket parts. It is the worst alignment combo for a fwd car for spirited driving. I guess car manufacturers don't want average drivers to get oversteer, no matter if it is fwd or rwd. The reason is, understeering is more forgiving and requires less driving skills if you make a mistake.

CSX is my daily driver but it still bothers me to drive with 0 camber in the front. That's why I bought front camber bolts, and now I have -1.6F / -1.4R camber for daily driving, and I put 9th gen 2014 SI rear sway bar (20 mm) to get more oversteer. OE rear sway bar is 11 mm. Car feels like it has more grip and it is way more balanced now.


Agreed My Civic is my winter/track car. I put KW coilovers in and STILL run a set of factory camber bolts in the summer. I am around -2.5 in the front with those mods. Then just loosen the camber bolts and pull the struts back out for the winter, run about -1.0.


Edited by mightymousetech (06/22/17 12:38 PM)
_________________________
Mighty Mouse Tech
Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL

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