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Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Doublehaul] #4215171 09/30/16 12:42 PM
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Nederlander75 Offline
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More discussion on the merits of UOA as a reliable wear assessment tool.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/653/wear-oil-analysis

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1357/oil-analysis-metrics

Reads like lower metal content supports less wear and thereby supportive of the assertion that conventional oils do produce less wear.

Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Nederlander75] #4215210 09/30/16 01:25 PM
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carock Offline
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Both those articles are about comparing wear metal levels from the same machine, and I believe the same oil, and doing trend analysis to determine if there is abnormal wear. They are not talking about changing machines and changing oils and then using wear metal particle counts to determine if one lubricant is better than another.

Last edited by carock; 09/30/16 01:26 PM.
Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Nederlander75] #4215214 09/30/16 01:31 PM
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Nickdfresh Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
More discussion on the merits of UOA as a reliable wear assessment tool.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/653/wear-oil-analysis

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1357/oil-analysis-metrics

Reads like lower metal content supports less wear and thereby supportive of the assertion that conventional oils do produce less wear.


No. The titles alone support the assertion that UOA's are better serving commercial/industrial applications rather than private passenger automotive ones. The UOA's I've heard of regarding industrial or construction heavy equipment are a lot more than $30, IIRC. I do think UOA's have their place, however. But mainly for tertiary problems like excessive antifreeze/coolant or fuel in motor oil. As far as 'how much you can stretch an OCI?' I think that's a bit silly IMO. You're just paying $30 to save $30 or less...

Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Nederlander75] #4215227 09/30/16 01:50 PM
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Pablo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nederlander75


Reads like lower metal content supports less wear and thereby supportive of the assertion that conventional oils do produce less wear.


You are doing science logic incorrectly.


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Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Pablo] #4215243 09/30/16 02:14 PM
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carock Offline
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There is enough information in this thread to finally answer the OPís question. Does conventional oil protect better than synthetic? The answer is no. In every instance I can easily find, the only evidence people present to show that dino oil protects as good or better than synthetic is UOA metal wear numbers. I think we have established that UOA metal wear numbers are the wrong tool for the job.

Unless somebody can show me evidence that a real world passenger car or fleet car test was conducted where dino oil proved it was superior to synthetic oil I think the case is closed. There are real world passenger and fleet car tests showing that synthetic oil is superior to dino oil.

The other argument people have made is that dino oils are cheaper and it just isnít worth using synthetics. That is not really the question.

Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: carock] #4215248 09/30/16 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: carock
There is enough information in this thread to finally answer the OPís question. Does conventional oil protect better than synthetic? The answer is no. In every instance I can easily find, the only evidence people present to show that dino oil protects as good or better than synthetic is UOA metal wear numbers. I think we have established that UOA metal wear numbers are the wrong tool for the job.

Unless somebody can show me evidence that a real world passenger car or fleet car test was conducted where dino oil proved it was superior to synthetic oil I think the case is closed. There are real world passenger and fleet car tests showing that synthetic oil is superior to dino oil.

The other argument people have made is that dino oils are cheaper and it just isnít worth using synthetics. That is not really the question.


Tell that to all the OFF and ON Road Truckers logging millions of miles on dino. I would venture to say neither protects better. If used appropriately and in accordance with vehicle specifications, either will protect virtually the same.


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Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Doublehaul] #4215251 09/30/16 02:21 PM
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I would agree with the above and add that conventional is more than good enough for most passenger vehicles in most situations. In any case, is there really a "conventional" anymore? as I think the vast majority of conventional are probably synthetic blends at this point...

Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: wemay] #4215282 09/30/16 02:51 PM
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carock Offline
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Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: carock
There is enough information in this thread to finally answer the OPís question. Does conventional oil protect better than synthetic? The answer is no. In every instance I can easily find, the only evidence people present to show that dino oil protects as good or better than synthetic is UOA metal wear numbers. I think we have established that UOA metal wear numbers are the wrong tool for the job.

Unless somebody can show me evidence that a real world passenger car or fleet car test was conducted where dino oil proved it was superior to synthetic oil I think the case is closed. There are real world passenger and fleet car tests showing that synthetic oil is superior to dino oil.

The other argument people have made is that dino oils are cheaper and it just isnít worth using synthetics. That is not really the question.


Tell that to all the OFF and ON Road Truckers logging millions of miles on dino. I would venture to say neither protects better. If used appropriately and in accordance with vehicle specifications, either will protect virtually the same.


There is no evidence in your argument that dino protects better than synthetic.

Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: carock] #4215364 09/30/16 04:54 PM
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wemay Offline
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Maybe because... i didn't say so.
Originally Posted By: carock
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: carock
There is enough information in this thread to finally answer the OPís question. Does conventional oil protect better than synthetic? The answer is no. In every instance I can easily find, the only evidence people present to show that dino oil protects as good or better than synthetic is UOA metal wear numbers. I think we have established that UOA metal wear numbers are the wrong tool for the job.

Unless somebody can show me evidence that a real world passenger car or fleet car test was conducted where dino oil proved it was superior to synthetic oil I think the case is closed. There are real world passenger and fleet car tests showing that synthetic oil is superior to dino oil.

The other argument people have made is that dino oils are cheaper and it just isnít worth using synthetics. That is not really the question.


Tell that to all the OFF and ON Road Truckers logging millions of miles on dino. I would venture to say neither protects better. If used appropriately and in accordance with vehicle specifications, either will protect virtually the same.


There is no evidence in your argument that dino protects better than synthetic.



Maybe because... i didn't say so. Reread Bold type. whistle


2019 VW Passat Wolfsburg TSI - Castrol Edge Professional LL IV FE 0W-20, OEM
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T - Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W30, M1-104
Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: carock] #4215385 09/30/16 05:24 PM
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DELETE*


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2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T - Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W30, M1-104
Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: carock] #4215392 09/30/16 05:32 PM
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Nederlander75 Offline
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Originally Posted By: carock
Both those articles are about comparing wear metal levels from the same machine, and I believe the same oil, and doing trend analysis to determine if there is abnormal wear. They are not talking about changing machines and changing oils and then using wear metal particle counts to determine if one lubricant is better than another.


And that's pretty much what Blackstone used to support their conclusion all be it over a larger population of "machines". I don't think anyone in this thread said a single pass UOA provided any value.

Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Pablo] #4215398 09/30/16 05:35 PM
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Nederlander75 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Nederlander75


Reads like lower metal content supports less wear and thereby supportive of the assertion that conventional oils do produce less wear.


You are doing science logic incorrectly.


Demonstrate please. Of course including all the discussion to form a relevant context.

Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Doublehaul] #4215418 09/30/16 05:55 PM
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Doublehaul Offline OP
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If there is no data or prof supporting the stance that conventional protects better...is there any data or evidence that supports the stance that synthetics protect better?


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Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Doublehaul] #4215423 09/30/16 05:58 PM
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Have not found any, and I've been looking ...


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Re: Does conventional oil protect better? [Re: Doublehaul] #4215426 09/30/16 05:59 PM
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So "protection" only consists of lower wear? What about other attributes such as oxidation control or shear stability?

And what about different brands of synthetic or conventional oils? Surely not all are a monolithic block when it comes to "protection"?


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