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#3421886 - 07/11/14 04:27 PM Traction control/ stability control safer car?
Corollaman Offline


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 138
Loc: Eastern Wa
We have a 2005 Caravan that does not have traction control or stability control, how much safer are newer cars that do have these systems?

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#3421889 - 07/11/14 04:31 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 31386
Loc: ME
Up to the limit of tire friction, better. Then when you lose it you're like ???

I tried to help someone out of our parking lot; she had new but cheezy all season tires and it wouldn't even spin them on snow/ slush due to the traction control. I had the pedal floored and it sat there at 1500 RPM.

I guess if you get stranded at home or work b/c your car won't try to move, that's "safer". mad

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#3421890 - 07/11/14 04:35 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 10997
Loc: NH
They are safer. How much safer? I'd have to go read up and find whatever official documents exist.

That said, how many Caravan's have you seen in the ditch? I've seen relatively few. IMO vehicle stability control (VSC) is important on trucks/SUV's, or perhaps more properly, more important for those top-heavy vehicles. Is it helpful on other cars? Sure. Critical? Myself, I am not shopping on the basis of that. I'm content with airbags, ABS and crumple zones.

I wouldn't trade out of an '05 just because of lack of VSC. Lack of ABS, age, high miles, general distrust of vehicle, or general dislike of vehicle, sure. But I think VSC is chasing diminishing returns in terms of safety.

But that's just my opinion.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 144k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 138k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 162k, his

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#3421893 - 07/11/14 04:36 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 10997
Loc: NH
eljefino has a point about the traction control, I forgot about that. In my truck, I often have to turn TC off or it won't move in snow. Oddly enough, my Camry is fine with TC on pretty much always--the programming is vastly different. My truck is RWD, Camry is FWD, so they apparently are allowing more wheelspin in that. At least for my age Camry. Snow tires are still recommended, even with TC.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 144k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 138k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 162k, his

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#3421895 - 07/11/14 04:42 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
dparm Online   content


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13348
Loc: Chicago, IL
I think it's hard to directly prove that those systems are safer. Police reports don't really have a checkbox for, "did vehicle crash because it did not have stability control."

The way I see it is this: nothing is foolproof, but in a panic situation, most people would not know how to keep the car out of a ditch. There are lots of e-thugs on the auto enthusiast websites that like to brag how they drive around with those things turned off ("I know what I'm doing, those systems just annoy me"), which seems pretty stupid.

I like to think of myself as a skilled driver that can handle my car at the limits, and even I have been saved a few times by those electronic nannies.
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#3421903 - 07/11/14 04:56 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
asand1 Offline


Registered: 12/16/12
Posts: 1538
Loc: Oregon coast
Its safer for people who don't know how to drive, or tend to panic. I personally think its a nuisance.
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#3421942 - 07/11/14 05:36 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 797
Loc: iowa
Since we are out of snow, find a wide open wet parking lot, and try and lose control of your car. It will make you a believer of stability control. Anything new, you have to try it out with practice, not in a panic situation. And, yes, in deep snow, if you can, turn off the traction control. Practice, don't guess.
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Tire Industry Association Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
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81 Camaro
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#3421946 - 07/11/14 05:41 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 14354
Loc: OH
How much safer is a car with ABS than an older one without it?
How much safer is a car with a dozen airbags than one with only two?
An economist published a paper years ago in which he suggested that vehicle safety enhancements only encouraged people to take chances beyond what they would have taken without them.
IOW, the final level of safety ended up being the same.
Drivers simply relied upon the nannies to keep them safe in situations where they would have otherwise used more discretion.
If you really want to research this, vehicle fatal injury rates by year can be found with a little searching.
I think you'll find that the type of vehicle is far more significant than the presence of any particular tech.
Minivans are far and away the safest passenger vehicles on the road by fatal injury rates, incidentally.
Is it the vehicles themselves, or is it the personally secure, mature types who normally drive them?
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#3421950 - 07/11/14 05:46 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
andyd Online   content


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 5992
Loc: Marshfield , MA
Meh ,if you if really know to drive, you won't be putting the car into situations where the nanny-ware engages. Brakes either. grin2
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#3421998 - 07/11/14 06:31 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: andyd]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 34161
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: andyd
Meh ,if you if really know to drive, you won't be putting the car into situations where the nanny-ware engages.

Sadly, this is where the industry is going. More and more nannies to make up for people's lack of driving skills and for all the distractions that we subject ourselves to. And with each generation, the general population's ability to actually drive will continue to diminish, until finally most will not know how to do it at all and we'll all be relying on our cars' computers to take us from A to B. The technology is already here, but not yet ready for prime... but soon.
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'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#3422009 - 07/11/14 06:50 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Ndx Offline


Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: IL
I personally think that it does help in certain situations even for skilled drivers .... and options like hill descent are priceless sometimes ... try doing that manually ...

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#3422014 - 07/11/14 06:55 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Quattro Pete]
MCompact Online   content


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 3557
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Sadly, this is where the industry is going. More and more nannies to make up for people's lack of driving skills and for all the distractions that we subject ourselves to. And with each generation, the general population's ability to actually drive will continue to diminish, until finally most will not know how to do it at all and we'll all be relying on our cars' computers to take us from A to B. The technology is already here, but not yet ready for prime... but soon.


That's the problem with society as a whole; people are too lazy or stupid to learn to do things properly. They want a quick fix that doesn't require any significant effort or thought on their part. And more and more they expect the Nanny State to supply the fix.
Read The Marching Morons if you want a textbook example of speculative fiction becoming fact.
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2014 M235i
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Wife's:
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2009 Cooper Clubman

Son's
2009 328i

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#3422022 - 07/11/14 07:04 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Seb Offline


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Matawan, NJ
Much safer. The people that are telling you that its worthless nanny gear are a bunch of Luddites. I bet there still mad about fuel injection and unleaded gasoline. Doesn't mean your car is a deathtrap but you just need to be more vigilant about driving in nasty conditions if you don't have it.

Here is 5th gear explaining and testing traction and stability control. LINK
Today cars traction control is a part of stability control. Wasn't always the case, my moms 2001 ES300 has traction control but does not have stability control, it was a optional that you had to pay extra for if you wanted it.

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#3422023 - 07/11/14 07:04 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: eljefino]
901Memphis Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 12638
Loc: Northern Kentucky
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Up to the limit of tire friction, better. Then when you lose it you're like ???

I tried to help someone out of our parking lot; she had new but cheezy all season tires and it wouldn't even spin them on snow/ slush due to the traction control. I had the pedal floored and it sat there at 1500 RPM.

I guess if you get stranded at home or work b/c your car won't try to move, that's "safer". mad


Most systems that don't have a disable switch will disable if you put them in 1,2 or low depending on the brand.

Traction control isn't going to help in snow unless you've got some serious snow tires on awd
_________________________
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
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#3422040 - 07/11/14 07:27 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: MCompact]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 14354
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Sadly, this is where the industry is going. More and more nannies to make up for people's lack of driving skills and for all the distractions that we subject ourselves to. And with each generation, the general population's ability to actually drive will continue to diminish, until finally most will not know how to do it at all and we'll all be relying on our cars' computers to take us from A to B. The technology is already here, but not yet ready for prime... but soon.


That's the problem with society as a whole; people are too lazy or stupid to learn to do things properly. They want a quick fix that doesn't require any significant effort or thought on their part. And more and more they expect the Nanny State to supply the fix.
Read The Marching Morons if you want a textbook example of speculative fiction becoming fact.


I think that it's safe to say that everyone here really enjoys cars and the act of driving.
I know that I enjoy almost every mile, whether I'm trying to drive fast or just see whether I can drive carefully enough and avoid enough braking to gain a best-ever mpg average out of a tank of fuel.
Many, maybe most of us drove crazy in our youths.
We learned a lot about car control in the process and we feel confident and tuned in under any conditions today.
Not everyone thinks that way.
They may need to drive to get where they need to go, but the act of driving is no more than an irritating distraction from the phone glued to their ears or the screen before their eyes on which they're busily answering texts or emails.
Driving in any machine is really fun, but many people have never grasped that.
For them, more automation is something desirable.
_________________________
17 Forester FF
12 Accord LX 69K SS 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
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