K&N Oil filters for Harley

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Well the stock oil filter on the new Harley Twin Cam engines have a bypass valve in the filter. K&N makes no claim to have one in theirs. Does this really remove this brand from the list of suitable filters for use on my bike. I do not beleive there is an internal bypass in the engine so if for some reason the oil cannot flow through the filter media the inevitable happens. We run on no oil until the engine dies, it starts flowing again or the light comes on and it is manually shut down. Does any one here have any experience with K&N's spin on bike filters. I have been happy with what I have seen from their car filters but have not had a chance to look at a bike one yet. I think pricing is similar to the OEM parts and I have yet to look towards AMSOIL's new line of bike filters. For looks and the convenience of that nut on the end of the filter for installation and removal the K&N seems to have the others beat, but if it is not going to bypass (if ever needed) when going down the road at 70mph then it kinda outweighs the pros of this line of filters. I may just buy one and tear it apart, and I suppose I could e-mail K&N or Champion to learn more, but I love to hear from you guys too
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If you're going by the cutaway on K&Ns webpage, that particular filter doesn't have the bypass valve because it doesn't need it for that application, but on filters for applications that need it, the K&N will have it. For instance, I have two K&Ns in my house right now, one for my LT1 Firebird and one for my wife's Honda. The LT1 filter has no bypass valve, as it's built into the block on that application. But the filter for the Honda does have the valve in it.

Best thing for you to do is find the filter you need and look inside it for the bypass, it should be there. K&N should update their site to show that applications which need a bypass valve will have them. Their cutaway is very misleading.
 
Well my KN-171C's arrived today and they don't look like they have a bypass. I compared them to the OEM filter for my bike. You can see the bypass/spring contraption just inside the threads on the OEM filter. Can't see anything but the hollow core and surrounding filter media on the K&N. I emailed K&N asking about it over 2 weeks ago and no response yet. I would imagine they probably get a lot of e-mails and it was the holidays. The filter comes in a box like the car filters but there is a plastic wrap around the filter and it is oiled to prevent rust on the chrome. Most chrome filters do not come like this and have no rust problems. The very edge or rim closest to the open end is not chromed but looks more like stainless. The chrome job isn't the prettiest, there are bumps that feel like sand in the chrome. It just doesn't have that show chrome mirror finish. It's not a terrible looking filter compared to a painted one, but hold it up to a Harley or other aftermarket chrome bike filter and the difference in the chrome job shows. I really don't know if I am going to use these or not. I don't think I would need to go into bypass as I use 20W50 AMSOIL and don't ride around in cold weather. I also keep a fairly clean engine, don't go for extended drains on this one but would hate to cook a new engine over the convenience of a nut welded to the end of a filter the same price as an OEM. My dealer friend and I have talked about why he doesn't stock the K&N and if it were to wreck the engine I don't think he would want to pay for the warranty work, although I would probably get away with alot of things I wouldn't ask for this if the filter not bypassing genuinely killed my v twin. I paid $23.95 CDN for the K&N, same as the Harley filter at a dealer. This is cost price for me through my auto shop! They said if I buy in half dozens it goes to about $21. I can get the car filters for around $16 my cost or $18 at Canadian Tire, but the major chains or bike shops don't carry K&N Powersports stuff (or Mobil bike oil for that matter), at least any places I have been. I probably should find a K&N distributer to deal with directly, but some of the ones I talked with in Canada were not all to helpfull so if I decided to keep buying these bike filters I guess I'll have to look harder. I should own stock in K&N now after all the filters I buy of these guys
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[ January 07, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: hk33ka1 ]
 
I have a PDF version of the Amsoil M/C oil filter application guide (288K). I can send it to you or provide a link to download if needed, contact me.

They do have the relief valve.

The Amsoil Chrome filters run 21.45cdn, less for PC..

[ January 07, 2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
 
Thanks Mike but I already have the catalogues, and will probably send for a filter or 2 to examine. (I sell AMSOIL too
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). I still want to talk to K&N and see why they did not put one in these filters when they usually do what is needed like Patman said.
 
Well I just emailed K&N again to ask if there is a bypass and if not why would'nt they put one in a filter that needed one. Hopefully they are not too busy and I will get a response this time. I guess my last e-mail could have been lost or they might still be digging through the back up after the holidays.
 
I certainly hope they are not like that. I would like to think they would be helpfull with me or any customer but only time will tell. If they don't e-mail me back this time I will call them and ask to talk to a tech guy. If we do find out that this filter is not up to spec (no bypass) I would hope they stop recommending it for applications where bypass should be, or start making them with a bypass. In my letter I mentioned that the bike needs a filter with a bypass and if I used theirs without one then I would loose my warranty if the filter clogging caused engine damage. I would think not using a proper part (non bypass filter) would be the cause and then Magnusson Moss or whichever similar law applies to bike owners area would not cover you or me. I hope K&N doesn't just say "whatever clogs the media (sludge etc) caused the bike to fail". This is fine and dandy but I'm sure a dealer wouldn't accept that line. Hopefully thought they will e-mail me and say there is a secret hidden (I can't see it) bypass valve or there is not and I should not use this product for this app. and they will change it or stop recommending it.
 
Just got an e-mail from K&N. The answer is not really for the question that I asked. I asked if the filter had a bypass valve incase the filter media clogged so the engine wouldn't be starved of oil. The Twin Cam 88 filters oil before it enters the engine not on the tank return line like older engine designs. The OEM and previous spin on Harley engine filters have a bypass valve. Here is the answer I recieved:


Dear customer,

Part# KN-171C does have an anti drain back valve. The only Harley oil
filter we released that does not have an anti drain back valve is part#
KN-170.

Hope this helps.

Thank you,

Lisa Sutton
K&N Technical Support
 
again not an answer to your query......but HD OEM TC filter, the PERF-Form, and the K&N all use the same media which is rated for about 10 microns.

use of strap wrench makes it easy to remove the filters..
 
quote:

Originally posted by hk33ka1:
Just got an e-mail from K&N. The answer is not really for the question that I asked. I asked if the filter had a bypass valve incase the filter media clogged so the engine wouldn't be starved of oil. The Twin Cam 88 filters oil before it enters the engine not on the tank return line like older engine designs. The OEM and previous spin on Harley engine filters have a bypass valve. Here is the answer I recieved:


Dear customer,

Part# KN-171C does have an anti drain back valve. The only Harley oil
filter we released that does not have an anti drain back valve is part#
KN-170.

Hope this helps.

Thank you,

Lisa Sutton
K&N Technical Support


Don't you just love it when they don't even answer the right question!
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She must've taken all of 5 seconds skimming your letter before replying with the typical cookie cutter response. I still haven't heard back from AC Delco yet on the flow ratings of their standard filters.
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quote:

Originally posted by Chris:
Or they are like a lot of companies and just delete the e-mails with no reply.
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Posted by Patman "Don't you just love it when they don't even answer the right question!

She must've taken all of 5 seconds skimming your letter before replying with the typical cookie cutter response. I still haven't heard back from AC Delco yet on the flow ratings of their standard filters."

Yes, that ticks me off. As a consumer, If a company expects me to buy their products, I expect them to answer my questions about these products. Isn't that what technicians are hired for. I get sick and tired of trying to shop either in person or call the tech line for help and have someone blow smoke up my butt
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-Joe

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I'm usually not this moody, but I had my wisdom teeth pulled yesterday, and after laying around all day with gauze stuffed in my mouth, I'm not in a good mood. -joe
 
well I don't think I will even e-mail them back again, not any time soon anyways. I don't think these filters are suitable for the applications for which they are recommended. I will likely just use them for flushing ala Amsoil method with new filter (K&N) during flush. The more my friends and I look at the chrome like finish the more we agree it is very poor in appearence and it would likely rust up very quickly even if kept clean. Once installed you can't really get at the one side to keep it clean. On a nice shined and polished chrome this wouldn't be a problem but I think this finish would rust up pretty soon. I think I will stick with OEM filters and may be I might hae an Amsoil one sent out to look at.
 
Just happen to have a K&N filter (KN-171C) in it's box sitting here. On the side of the box it says "Improved pressure relief valve."
This is in addition to the statement, also on the same side of the box: "Check valve prevents oil drainback and dry starts."
I'm fairly certain the two statements are talking about two different things, and says to me that it has a bypass (pressure relief) valve.
K&N was helpful when I asked for info, sending an email with a complete list of flow rates/pressures, etc.
If interested, I'll see if I can find it and post it.
I've been holding off using this filter in my '02 Harley TC88 because I wasn't sure the media filtered as well as the stock Harley filters. From what I'm reading here, the "synthetic-blend filter media" is as good as, if not better than, the Harley filter. The welded-on "nut" on the end of the filter makes for easy filter changes.
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RR
 
From American Iron Magazine – September 2004
Mike Goshert’s oil filter tests and measurements

The psi readings in the Bypass Valve column are the pressure at which the bypass valve opened to let unfiltered oil pass by the filter and go back into the engine.

Filter Part # Bypass Valve Filter Area

K&N KN-171C 14 psi 164” square (73”x2.25”)
Fram PH6022 12 psi 101” square (45”x2.25”)
Amsoil SMF134C 12psi 106” square (47”x2.25”)
A/C Delco PF53 10psi 96” square (55”x1.75”)
H-D 63731-99 10psi 63” square (36”x1.75”)

The bypass/relief valve in an oil filter is needed to keep the filter from collapsing when the flow through the engine exceeds the flow through the filter. It would be nice if this only happened when the filter was not changed often enough, but would appear that it is a very common occurrence in all motor vehicles, and it may be worse when you have a fine micron media and high viscosity oil.

The fine synthetic media used in the 10-micron Twin Cam oil filter can only let so much oil through it in a given amount of time. When the engine is at operating temperature, the 20W50 oil we use in our Harleys acts like a 50-weight oil, which is very heavy especially when compared to 10W30 automotive oil. So we end up with a relatively heavy oil trying to permeate an extremely fine media filter material.

When there is a backup of oil, which causes excess oil pressure at the filter, the bypass/relief valve will open to allow unfiltered oil unrestricted access back into the engine. This occurs until the oil pressure drops to an acceptable level, which closes the filter’s bypass/relief valve, allowing more oil to pass through the filter.

Here’s another factor: Let’s say the amount of pressure required to open the bypass/relief valve is 12 psi. This amount of pressure is more likely to be exceeded, which would open the valve, when running the engine in cold weather or when the engine is first started. This is because the oil doesn’t flow as well under these conditions as compared to when it’s hot.

Mike Goshert’s tests indicated that the H-D filter had only 27 percent of the capacity of the K&N filter he tested. Logic would seem to dictate that more oil could pass through the greater surface area of the K&N filter.

The H-D filter has an internal bypass so element restriction does not reduce flow and create a pressure drop. It would probably scare us to death if we knew how little oil was filtered. Think about it, 20-50 is relatively high viscosity oil and 10 micron is a relatively fine filter element. A high percentage of the oil bypasses the filter element; there is no other logical conclusion. The pressure across the filter element is established by a fairly light bypass spring inside the filter-not by the oil pump. Odds are that a metal particle could make a number of passes through the system before it was finally caught by the filter element.
 
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