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#3024812 - 06/06/13 01:56 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: Jocephus]
Danno Offline


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1672
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jocephus


My Escalade with 6.2L V8
On 100% gas I get 18.4 mpg
On 10% ethanol I get 15.7 mpg
On E85 I get 13.2 mpg



Interesting results.
With 10% ethanol, the math says you should see about a 3% decline in fuel use as the ethanol BTUs are about 70% of gasoline BTUs.
I wonder if they are slipping in more than 10% ethanol?



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#3025194 - 06/06/13 08:55 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: Danno]
ueberooo Offline


Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 702
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Danno

With 10% ethanol, the math says you should see about a 3% decline in fuel use as the ethanol BTUs are about 70% of gasoline BTUs.
I wonder if they are slipping in more than 10% ethanol?


Good catch, it looks like they probably are.

That E10 only seems to be doing 85% of the work of the E0 as opposed to the 97% expected. That'd seem to be too large a difference due to measurement error. Unless there was some big headwinds/tailwinds affecting those fuel readings.

Hope you can collect more data and get to the bottom of this.
_________________________
--- 1995 Subie Imp EJ18, MT, with ~ 193K miles.... Kendall 5w30. I <3 MoS2 + B + Zn ----

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#3025765 - 06/07/13 11:18 AM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: Grebbler]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 11881
Loc: The Motor City
Grebbler, let us know what the results are. Not just miles per gallon, but also $ per mile. It should be easy math.

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#3026198 - 06/07/13 05:48 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: 95busa]
hatt Offline


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 3885
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Would you rather pay a farmer or a haji? Easy question for this guy.
Most of the money made by ethanol isn't paid to the farmer. He barely gets what it takes to grow the crop. The huge corps are making the money supplying proprietary seed, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, equipment, fuel, financing, etc. And of course the farmers get none of value added profit once the corn leaves the farm. And where do you think the farmer gets all the diesel to run those huge machines. You argument is flawed.


Edited by hatt (06/07/13 05:50 PM)
_________________________
2013 F150 5.0, Delo 15w-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10w-30, Fram Ultra XG9972

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#3026414 - 06/07/13 09:39 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: hatt]
ueberooo Offline


Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 702
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Would you rather pay a farmer or a haji? Easy question for this guy.
Most of the money made by ethanol isn't paid to the farmer. He barely gets what it takes to grow the crop. The huge corps are making the money supplying proprietary seed, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, equipment, fuel, financing, etc. And of course the farmers get none of value added profit once the corn leaves the farm. And where do you think the farmer gets all the diesel to run those huge machines. You argument is flawed.

Part of the bit that does go to the farmer pays him for the devaluation of his land as the soil slowly gets depleted of the more beneficial and trace minerals, and in most cases to varying extent, the addition of chemicals into the soil, from herbicides to the fluoride containing pesticides. Then there's the issue of drawing and depleting the groundwater in parts of the country where water isn't abundant.

Depleting our farmers land for some small net energy positive btu gain is not good over the long term and it should definitely no longer be subsidized. Burn stale grain excess stockpiles and leave it at that.

What Shell is doing, nat. gas to liquids refining, makes much more sense. There's a huge amount of gas just being flared to waste in the Bakken fields.
_________________________
--- 1995 Subie Imp EJ18, MT, with ~ 193K miles.... Kendall 5w30. I <3 MoS2 + B + Zn ----

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#3028879 - 06/10/13 01:29 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: ueberooo]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4809
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: ueberooo
Originally Posted By: Jocephus
My Escalade with 6.2L V8
On 100% gas I get 18.4 mpg
On 10% ethanol I get 15.7 mpg
On E85 I get 13.2 mpg

I only run 100% gas now after doing the test for a month...even wrote my congressman a letter with the full supportive documentation. Heard nothing back.


One highway, zero city. Just kidding. No, I totally agree with you and hope your congressman listens to the input. I think fuel should be anywhere from E0 to E10. We should only burn stale expiring grain stocks as auto fuel.

Except if it's GMO; then it's safer to burn it than have anyone or anything eat it.


So your against using corn for ethanol but then your also against using GMO? Theoretically you'd rather produce less corn which in return would feed less people, than produce as much as possible to satisfy world demand with GMO produced corn? Almost all the corn out there is GMO. There hasn't been a real convincing study proving GMOs can harm anyone or anything.
_________________________
2011 F-150 Ecoboost
2012 Focus S
2001 Taurus

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#3028903 - 06/10/13 01:52 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: Grebbler]
DBMaster Offline


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 5011
Loc: DFW
There is something I don't understand fully. I keep hearing in the news and on documentary programs that many parts of the U.S., especially the corn belt, is going through a major long-term drought. This is driving up food prices across the board. If this is the case why we would be pushing to use even more ethanol? Perhaps this is a way to subsidize crops without really "subsidizing" them.

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#3029844 - 06/11/13 11:08 AM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: DBMaster]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 9552
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
There is something I don't understand fully. I keep hearing in the news and on documentary programs that many parts of the U.S., especially the corn belt, is going through a major long-term drought. This is driving up food prices across the board. If this is the case why we would be pushing to use even more ethanol? Perhaps this is a way to subsidize crops without really "subsidizing" them.
+1

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#3029845 - 06/11/13 11:09 AM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: hatt]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 9552
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Would you rather pay a farmer or a haji? Easy question for this guy.
Most of the money made by ethanol isn't paid to the farmer. He barely gets what it takes to grow the crop. The huge corps are making the money supplying proprietary seed, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, equipment, fuel, financing, etc. And of course the farmers get none of value added profit once the corn leaves the farm. And where do you think the farmer gets all the diesel to run those huge machines. You argument is flawed.
I'd rather pay a Canadian or Texas oil man.

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#3029850 - 06/11/13 11:12 AM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: 95busa]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 9552
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Would you rather pay a farmer or a haji? Easy question for this guy.
I'd rather pay a Canadian or Texas oil man to drill HERE. ANd pipeline guys to build pipelines that AGRABUSINESS OPPOSES.

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#3030298 - 06/11/13 07:54 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: HerrStig]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4809
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Would you rather pay a farmer or a haji? Easy question for this guy.
Most of the money made by ethanol isn't paid to the farmer. He barely gets what it takes to grow the crop. The huge corps are making the money supplying proprietary seed, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, equipment, fuel, financing, etc. And of course the farmers get none of value added profit once the corn leaves the farm. And where do you think the farmer gets all the diesel to run those huge machines. You argument is flawed.
I'd rather pay a Canadian or Texas oil man.

Then you shouldn't be eating the food on your plate on or wear the clothes on your back. A farmer somewhere in the US was mostly involved with everything you use everyday.
_________________________
2011 F-150 Ecoboost
2012 Focus S
2001 Taurus

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#3030383 - 06/11/13 09:29 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: 95busa]
ueberooo Offline


Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 702
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Would you rather pay a farmer or a haji? Easy question for this guy.


My personal preference for my dollar, in this order:

An organic farmer or an amish farmer.

canadian oil man (there's a place for tarsands)

bakken oil man (too much flaring to rank them high)

hajis (they have a family to feed and need money too)

a farmer using any monsanto products



I have some pretty good guesses as to why the US has some of the highest disease rates among developed countries and why it has been skyrocketing over past 10- 15 years. Cure for breast cancer? How about if people ate quality food over junk instead? The US makes some really top technical and niche products, but when it comes to agriculture, it seems to be the race towards cheaply made and rock bottom quality. Even produce is designed to look spectacular, yet you bite into that perfect red tomato and it's anything but. When the focus becomes quality over quantity again I'll change my mind.

Does it surprise you why Monsanto's engineers and scientists demanded no Monsanto foods in their own cafeterias? Or that they coincidentally picked 3 months as their timescale for their "long term" animal study?

2010:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked_n_420365.html

2012:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...-modified-foods

http://laist.com/2012/09/19/french_study_finds_massive_tumors_i.php
_________________________
--- 1995 Subie Imp EJ18, MT, with ~ 193K miles.... Kendall 5w30. I <3 MoS2 + B + Zn ----

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#3032029 - 06/13/13 09:01 AM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: Grebbler]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 5108
Loc: KC
I thank you for burning ethanol and increasing my risks for lung diseases. You are so thoughtful.
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX, Formula Shell 5W30, Fram TG, 155k+
2015 Chrysler T&C, 60k+, PP 5w30, Fram OF

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#3036377 - 06/17/13 05:51 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: Grebbler]
shovel Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 19
Loc: Arizona
I burn E85 in my not-factory-"flex" vehicle whenever possible. Have done so with every vehicle I've owned since E85 became available; modifying as needed to provide adequate fuel flow.

Have fun hatin', haters. B)

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#3038559 - 06/19/13 03:15 PM Re: E-85. I think I'm a convert. [Re: shovel]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 5108
Loc: KC
Originally Posted By: shovel
I burn E85 in my not-factory-"flex" vehicle whenever possible. Have done so with every vehicle I've owned since E85 became available; modifying as needed to provide adequate fuel flow.

Have fun hatin', haters. B)


I agree. Human health is overrated.
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX, Formula Shell 5W30, Fram TG, 155k+
2015 Chrysler T&C, 60k+, PP 5w30, Fram OF

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